Mr. SHANNON. Can we give awards to students in this Nation and not give it to all students? The CHAIRMAN. Surely. Senator ALLOTT. Is not the aim, to give it to all students? The CHAIRMAN. The aim is to give all students the opportunity to win a scholarship. Every student will have the opportunity. The opportunity will be open to every student. Mr. SHANNON. Further on in my testimony I will try to point out how it might be done without this criticism. Congress has established bureaus with extensive funds for educational purposes, outside the jurisdiction of the United States Office of Education, and requiring compliance with Federal directive and regulation. One such example is the provision of scholarships for teachers in such areas as science. This is Federal aid at the price of Federal direction. MATCHING REQUIREMENTS When Federal legislation requires matching funds by State legislatures and local boards of education and further sets forth how the funds are to be expended, it is Federal support with Federal control of State, as well as Federal funds. Better quality of education, including instruction and administration is needed. To provide Federal assistance for science, mathematics, and foreign language teachers in addition to vocational subjects, leaves the impression that English and social studies teachers, for example, are not important to this Nation. Therefore, it is believed that quality of education in all subject areas must be promoted. When the Federal Government skims off more than 75 cents of each tax dollar collected in this Nation, the shortage of tax dollars is so extensive at the local and State levels that many community and State-supported programs of improvement cannot be adequately financed. FEDERAL TAX REDUCTION With a reduction of Federal taxes, the individual, regardless of which college or university he expects to attend, may spend his money where he wishes. This is true also of greater allowances on income tax payments for parents with students in college. Now for the provisions of S. 3187 and S. 3163. The scholarship program in both bills violates the first principle listed above (separation of church and state). This is our feeling. The guidance and counseling (and testing) phase of both bills violates the principle of local and State control. Institutes in guidance and counseling contain provisions which are counter to separation of church state and to local and State control. Assistance to States for science, mathematics, or modern foreign language instruction violates local and State control. Provisions for consultants violate local and State control. Fellowship provisions violate the principles of local and State control of education and the principle of separation of church and state. Improvement of statistical services: One major function of the United States Office of Education is to collect, compile, and dispense educational statistics and information. This function has never been successfully attained. By July 1, 1958, it is hoped that statistical data will be compiled on the Nation's children and schools for the year ending June 30, 1956. We know the current number of pigs and farms in the Nations, yet we do not know the number of children and classrooms. Since the information is needed at the Federal level by the United States Congress and other branches and agencies of Government, the United States Office of Education should be provided with sufficient funds for securing complete essential educational statistics from State departments of education and local school districts. S. 3163 adequately covers this vital need but provides excessive direction to the State department of education. VARIOUS PROPOSED PROGRAMS Student loan program. Provisions of S. 3187 violate the principle of church and state and of State control. If parents or guardians were permitted to deduct the cost of attendance of each youth in college annually from income taxes, the need for student loan and scholarship programs would not be so extensive. Work-study program.-This provision of S. 3187 violates the principle of separation of church and state. Summer school and extension courses for teachers.-If Congress would enact legislation, or the Director of Internal Revenue Service would rule that teachers attending summer school for work toward advanced degrees could deduct these expenses, this phase of S. 3187 would be deleted. Congressional citations. Recognition of the top 5 percent of high school graduates annually is a noble idea. If providing medals and citations would require another expensive Federal Government bureau, then it is proposed that this activity be left to the local community, as is now the practice in many States. Research in television and other media for education.-Since an expansive program is being conducted in this area in all sections of the United States with the support of foundation funds, this provision of S. 3187 should be deleted. Science Information Service.-The United States Office of Education collects information on English, mathematics, and other basic subjects. It can also collect needed information on science. The CHAIRMAN. Any questions Senator? EXPLANATION OF STATEMENT Senator ALLOTT. I would just like to say this, Mr. Chairman, if I may: The hour is late. I would just like to have you explain how you believe that the guidance and testing phase of the bills violates the principle of local and State control. Mr. SHANNON. The summary under S. 3163 reads: In any State in which the State educational agency could not lawfully make payments to cover the costs of testing in private schools, the Commissioner will reserve from the State's allotment an amount equal to $1.25 multiplied by the enrollments in such private schools in grades 9 to 12 inclusive. The amounts reserved would be available for payment for one-half of the expenditures incurred under arrangements made by the Commissioner for testing of students in private schools, up to a maximum Federal payment of $1.25, multiplied by the number of students enrolled in such private schools in such grades. Senator ALLOTT. And you believe that this service rendered to students in private schools violates this principle of separation? Mr. SHANNON. Actually as I see it, it is also directing the funds from the private school. In other words, you are giving direction to private school funds as well as to Federal funds under this provision of the bill. PROPOSALS TO MEET CRISIS Senator ALLOTT. May I ask you what are the proposals of your organization, which is responsible for the schools of this country, to meet the educational crisis in this country which is not secondary to anything, including the construction of intercontinental ballistic missiles? Mr. SHANNON. Public schools of this Nation reflect the society in which we live. If we, as fathers and mothers of the boys and girls, take long coffee breaks, if we work 6 hours a day, if our moral standards and fiber are weak, this is reflected in the youth of the Nation itself. I think a real value of the Russian satellite is the educational renaissance which we are experiencing in America today. Frankly, we can pass all the legislation we want, but as has been pointed out in other testimony this morning, we cannot compel boys and girls to study. Many scholarships are being provided now from industry for outstanding students to attend college. Through the testing program we know they have the ability. Yet, when Dad gives the youngster a convertible and a checkbook, and industry is providing the scholarship, we are placing in his way stumbling blocks for his educational attainment. REAPPRAISAL OF LOCAL EFFORT Senator ALLOTT. I would like to say in answer to that part of it with which I agree that I hope the National School Boards Association will completely reappraise its situation and see what it can do toward placing in effect at the local level some of the fine recommendations we have had here in this committee over a period of the last few weeks. I am one of those who believes that there is too little effort on the local level and too much dependence on the Federal Government. In that respect, I agree with you. But I know this attitude you express is not the attitude, I hope it is not the atitude, of the school boards of the United States, because if it is, we are sunk; we are not going to get anything done. POSITION NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL SCHOOL BOARDS Mr. SHANNON. I would not want to leave the impression that every school board in Colorado or Illinois or any other State would agree with half of what I have said this morning, any more than you as a Representative of your constituents can say that the voting that any Representative does represents the thinking even of the majority of the people in that area. Senator ALLOTT. They always have the opportunity not to send him back. The CHAIRMAN. I think I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of the school boards in my State would not agree with your statements here this morning. EDUCATIONAL STATISTICS You say in your statement that we know the number of pigs and farms, but we do not know the number of children in classrooms. Do you mean to say that the State departments of education do not know the number of children in schools in their States and the number of classrooms in their States? Mr. SHANNON. The system that we have of collecting information at the State level can never complete that list of information until each school district has turned in its information to the statistical department in the State. The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean to say that the school districts under these school boards that you claim to represent here, these boards you pretend to speak for, are derelict in not sending in this information? Mr. SHANNON. Many times they are. Many times the board members do not know that the information has not been provided. The CHAIRMAN. Then you impeach the principles that you represented this morning. Mr. SHANNON. I do not not think so. The CHAIRMAN. That is the purport of your statement, sir. Senator ALLOTT. No, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. That is all, sir. The committee will stand in recess until Monday morning, March 3. Among the witnesses will be representatives of the National Association of Secondary School Principals, and the Engineers Joint Council. (Whereupon, the committee recessed at 12:40 p. m. to reconvene Monday, March 3, 1958, at 10 a. m.) |