Senator SMITH. You do not see any serious danger in that? Dr. DUBRIDGE. I cannot see any danger at all. I can see only good in the development of collaboration.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Thurmond, do you have a question?

AUTHORITY FOR STATEMENTS ABOUT RUSSIA

Senator THURMOND. Doctor, it seems to be prevalent information that the Russians, as you stated, are turning out more engineers and scientists than the United States. I have read that and heard that, and I just wondered what your authority is for the statement that that is correct.

Dr. DUBRIDGE. I am not sure I understand your question. Do I think that that is correct?

Senator THURMOND. I believe you stated that Russia is turning out more engineers and scientists than our country.

Dr. DUBRIDGE. At the present time.

Senator THURMOND. And I have read and heard that and it may be correct, and it probably is. But I just wondered if you had any authentic information on that point.

Dr. DUBRIDGE. I am not an authority on the subject and I have not visited Russia, but I have read the statements made by scientists who have visited Russia, and there has been quite a lot published in the last several years.

I think it is well established that the numbers graduated per year in 1956 and 1957 were substantially greater than the numbers graduated in this country in those years. Their number graduating per year has been rising at a rate more rapidly than has ours, and they have now passed us on that.

Senator THURMOND. What is the basis of your statement? What is the authority for your statement that that is the case; that it is rising? Where do you get your information?

Dr. DU BRIDGE. There are two books on this subject published. One is by, I think, the most recent author, by the MIT Center of International Studies, by a man whose name I believe is Korol. He has published a quite complete study of the Russian educational system. There have been other studies, but that is the one that comes to my mind at the moment. There also have been talks. I have talked with scientists who have visited Russia and who confirm what is stated in this book. So I do not think that there is any doubt about that.

Senator THURMOND. In other words, from the information coming to you, you are pretty well convinced that they are turning out more. Dr. DUBRIDGE. More per year at the present time.

Senator THURMOND. That seems to be the prevalent opinion, but I just wondered what authority you had for it.

Dr. DUBRIDGE. I do not think one should exaggerate the importance of that, and, on the other hand, you should not minimize it. It is a fact that we should face.

Senator THURMOND. I do not think I have any other questions.

Soviet Education for Science and Technology, Alexander Korol. Published jointly by the Technology Press of MIT and John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York, 1957.

22201-58

A QUESTION OF PERSONAL SURVIVAL

Senator ALLOTT. Dr. DuBridge, I must say that I find your statement most thought provoking, and I am very tempted to question at great length, and only our situation will prevent me from doing it.

But there are a few areas that I would like to explore and I will explore them in the order in which you covered them in your state

ment.

First, one of the statements you made and I copied down is this: Maintenance of a democratic system. I think this is a very easy statement to make, but the real essence of what you are saying is the difference between the Russians and us is in maintaining the democratic system. In this you are actually maintaining the very self-perpetuation of probably every man and woman in this room; are you

not?

Dr. DUBRIDGE. I think so.

Senator ALLOTT. As far as their own lives are concerned?
Dr. DU BRIDGE. That is right.

Senator ALLOTT. There is no doubt in your mind from the Soviet pattern throughout the world, in the course of their conquests, what would happen to a great deal of the college professors and lawyers and doctors and political leaders and all of the leaders of the various communities in this country if they were successful in their aims? Dr. DU BRIDGE. That is correct.

Senator ALLOTT. So it is more than just a term of maintaining our democratic system. It is a question of personal survival?

Dr. DUBRIDGE. That is certainly true. There is a challenge presented by this Russian system. It is in part a military challenge, and in part an intellectual challenge, and in part a challenge of world leadership. But it participates in all of these elements.

If they should be superior to us militarily, and should decide on a military conquest which they could well do, it would be disaster for this country. I do not believe, however, that they are in a position to conquer this country tonight.

ALTERED CONCEPT OF EDUCATION

Senator ALLOTT. Neither do I. Now this impression kept coming to me throughout your entire statement and it is this: Do we not really have to alter what has been the common concept for the last 25 years at least of our educational system?

I will try to give 2 or 3 examples, and you use these examples yourself. One is the great prevalence and acceptance by the public of the basket-weaving type of course in our education.

Another one is the excessive emphasis on so-called "sports," and I put "sports" in quotation marks because our sports are not really sports any more. They are the development of a few for the enter tainment of the many.

A third thing is the development of numerous extracurricular activities which leave the student almost no opportunity, at least in the lower levels of school, to participate in home life or even in his studies.

I use these three things as examples, and isn't one of the bases of this-I am asking you a long hypothetical question-but isn't it neces

sary that we Americans alter what we have come to accept as our concept of education if we are going to accomplish the thing that you are talking about?

DEFECTS TO REMOVE

Dr. DUBRIDGE. Yes, and I think that that is what I was trying to say, and not as well. It is namely that these defects, and I want to emphasize that these are defects which have grown up in a strong system, and a system generally strong. It has developed these defects and these rotten spots.

We must try to remove these defects in order to bring our educational system up to where it ought to be for our national welfare and strength. These are defects that can be removed. They can be cured, We can increase the desire for intellectual achievement in our schools, and if there is a strong enough desire for intellectual achievement, then the basket weaving and the excessive emphasis on extracurricular activities will be frozen out. There won't be time for the irrelevant things if we really believe that intellectual competition is our first goal in a school system.

Senator ALLOTT. In other words, you believe we can enter this change solely at this level, in the method you suggested, by prizes and so on, and cure it. What I am really wondering about

NEW INTEREST IN INTELLECTUAL EXCELLENCE

Dr. DUBRIDGE. I did not mean that. I don't mean that that prize system is any cure; it is only one little thing that the Federal Government might do to symbolize its interest. All thoughout the country must come a new interest in intellectual excellence, and somehow this has to be stimulated throughout the country.

There are many ways in which this must be done. The Federal Government perhaps cannot do as much as it would like to do, and it could only do a few things. But if it takes a little leadership and sets off a little spark, it may give a rising interest throughout the country.

ALERTING LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS

Senator ALLOTT. We all believe in local control of schools. I am thinking in terms of the facts that if our education systems are to be actually changed, and I personally believe that they are long due for some more emphasis on serious study, then the men and women who are the controllers, the school boards, and the men and women in the communities all over this country must be made completely aware. Therefore, making them aware of these things that you have been discussing is not that one of the greatest problems that we have? Dr. DU BRIDGE. Yes, sir, exactly.

Senator ALLOTT. Have you any suggestions about that?

Dr. DU BRIDGE. How can we broadcast throughout the country the importance to our national welfare of improving the intellectual competition of our students, the intellectual achievement of our students? This I think is a grave and difficult national problem. I hope that through statements made by Congress, and the Chief Executive, and

the leaders and the governors of our States, that this can be continually hammered at the American people.

I believe that the Russians have done us a great favor in a sense by launching sputnik. That is in order to sort of provide a flash to illuminate this whole field and this subject and bring this awareness in a sudden way which might not have been achieved so easily before.

The time is ripe I think for an intellectual reawakening in our schools.

THE RIGHT TO AN EDUCATION

Senator ALLOTT. I would like to ask you this question also: Is there not a real difference between the right of the student to education, and the right of the student to a degree?

Dr. DU BRIDGE. Yes, I think that I understand what you mean. The right of a student to an education is a right which persists as long or as far as his intellectual capacities and his ambition should take him. This might be to the sixth grade, in the case of an unfortunate individual, and it might be through the doctor of philosophy for those who are better favored by genetics and by environmnt.

But whatever it is, the right to education is a right which is limited by the intellectual achievements and capacities and ambitions of the students. Is that what you mean?

Senator ALLOTT. Haven't these two things been confused generally in the mind of the public?

Dr. DUBRIDGE. I also like a remark that President Hutchins once made at the University of Chicago, that he thought a bachelors degree should be conferred upon every child at birth, and then the colleges could get back to the business of education.

That is not my statement; it is a statement of someone else.

Senator ALLOTT. The other gentlemen have covered most of these other questions, and I do want to thank you. I feel that the catalytic qualities of sputnik will in the long run assist us greatly in the United States, if we heed the warnings. I certainly want to again express my appreciation to you for your statement.

Dr. DUBRIDGE. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, you came a long way, all of the way from California, to be with us today, and we are deeply grateful to you for coming, and also, as Senator Allott expressed it so aptly, for this very thought-provoking presentation here this morning. It has been most helpful and very fine.

We certainly want to thank you.

Now, Dr. Rabi.

DR. ISIDOR I. RABI

We are now to have the privilege of hearing one of America's most eminent scientists, Dr. Isidor Rabi, Higgins professor of physics at Columbia University.

Dr. Rabi, who was born in Austria in 1898, came to America in his infancy. He took his bachelor of arts degree in chemistry at Cornell University, New York, in 1919, and received his doctor of philosophy at Columbia in 1927.

Thereafter, he continued his graduate studies at Munich, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Leipzig, and Zurich, and then began the teaching of physics at Columbia University, where he became executive officer of the department of physics in 1945.

His research in physics won him the Nobel prize in 1944. He has been awarded numerous honorary degrees and medals for his many accomplishments.

During the war years, he served as a staff member and associate director of the Radiation Laboratory at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Dr. Rabi was appointed in December 1946 to the newly established General Advisory Committee of the Atomic Energy Commission and served in that Committee almost continuously until August of 1956. During the last 4 years of his service, he was Chairman of the Committee.

Dr. Rabi also gave guidance and counsel to the Federal Government as a member of the Science Advisory Board of the Office of Defense Mobilization during the years 1952-54 and was Chairman of that Board from July 1956 until the end of this past November. He is currently a member of the President's Science Advisory Board. Doctor, you taught physics for a great many years, and you have made profoundly important contributions to science through your research and your leadership. You have helped immeasurably to strengthen the defense of our country. We want you to know that we are very much honored and delighted to have you here this morning.

We appreciate your presence. I do not want to embarrass you, but I wonder if you would tell the committee and those of us here briefly just what your work was that inspired the Nobel prize committee to award you the Nobel prize.

STATEMENT OF DR. I. I. RABI, HIGGINS PROFESSOR OF PHYSICS AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, AND PAST CHAIRMAN OF THE PRESIDENT'S SCIENCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE

Dr. RABI. Well, sir, it is rather difficult in a way and it is the difficulty which we face in describing all scientific things to the lay public. I take it you are not a physicist, sir. I will describe it briefly.

I found a method of measuring the magnetic strength of the atomic nucleus. The magnetic strength would be the same sort of thing which is the strength of a magnet, such as you might find in a store. The method which I found enabled me to measure that very small nuclear magnet with the same accuracy, or higher accuracy, even, than you could measure a larger one, the sort of thing you could handle.

I applied that to study a number of atomic nuclei, to measure their magnetic properties, which information helped to some degree to elucidate the structure of the atomic nucleus.

I hope this inadequate presentation is meaningful.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you, and you may proceed in your own way.

SUPPORT FOR DR. DUBRIDGE'S STATEMENT

Dr. RABI. Well, sir, I did not prepare a statement. It is not because of lack of respect for this committee or the importance of the occasion. I simply did not have time. Very fortunately, I came along