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FEDERAL FUNDS

The CHAIRMAN. Personally, I thank you for your very fine, excellent and challenging statement here this morning.

May I ask this now, with reference to the Federal Government: As you know, there are many Federal-aid programs in many different fields of endeavor and activity. What would be your thinking in terms of Federal aid, and I mean Federal aid in the form of Federal funds for our colleges and for our secondary and elementary schools? Dr. BRONK. I think one of the important ways in which the Federal Government can improve the quality of science education is to stress the fact that science education is not distinct and apart from all other types of education. As a scientist, I like to think of science as an integral part of our whole cultural life and development.

I make no distinction between education in the humanities, in the social sciences, and in the natural sciences. I cannot escape the conviction that science is a part of the spiritual development of our people.

Our literature deals with people whose lives were influenced in part by scientific developments and scientific thoughts. The history of nations is determined in part by scientific developments. The social relations of peoples and the quality of social institutions is determined in part by science and technology. I would go on to say that the course of science and technology is influenced in very considerable part by our historical background, and by the desires of the people which spring from their spiritual quality, and by the nature of our institu

tions.

There is this intimate relationship between science and all other forms of education.

BETTER DEVELOPMENT OF SCIENCE EDUCATION

To return to the question asked, Senator Hill, I would say that one of the important ways in which the Federal Government can aid in the improvement of science education is by the provision of opportunities for research and teaching. Research is a part of education because research is a way of learning.

If students are brought up in an atmosphere of research they will have respect for the continual unfolding of knowledge which is brought about by research.

I would say that the way in which the National Science Foundation is supporting this great undertaking at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the improvement of the educational method in the physical sciences is an excellent example of the way in which the Federal Government can aid education throughout the country. This must of necessity be a national effort because it could influence education in the sciences throughout this country.

I would say that improvement in the quality and competence of our scientific teachers as is done by the National Science Foundation through its fellowship program and by the National Academy of Science through private grants and grants from other governmental agencies, is a very effective way for the Government to improve the quality of education throughout the country, because it is improving it at the source, which is the teacher.

I think that the creation of fellowship programs which demand the satisfaction of high standards could raise standards throughout the whole educational system of the Nation.

The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, could you make us any suggestion at this time with reference to education at the undergraduate level and the secondary and elementary level? What would be your thinking about these.

QUALITY OF TEACHING IN HIGH SCHOOLS

Dr. BRONK. As the president of the only graduate university of which I know, I am continually impressed by the fact that what we can do depends upon, in large measure, the quality of the education which the student has received in the college. We are continually having to do things, and to carry on educational programs, which we had hoped had been taken care of at a younger age, as undergraduates. As one who has taught undergraduates for many years, I was impressed by the fact that what the colleges can do depends upon the type of education which the students have had in their secondary

schools.

What the secondary schools can do depends upon what type of education their students have had in the primary schools.

This leads me to say that I think one of the great needs of our country in the field of scientific education is a better quality of teaching in our high schools because this is where the students' interests are often aroused and molded. The interests they develop and the intellectual habits they form determine in very large measure what they do subsequently throughout life.

So I would say that one of the greatest needs in our whole educational system is for improving the quality of teaching in our high schools.

One of the ways in which this will be done is by increasing the teachers' knowledge of the subject matter they are teaching.

I am one of those who has not had formal instruction in the methods of teaching. I am one of those who think that a great teacher is one who has understanding, insight, and enthusiasm, and above all has knowledge of what he is teaching. I recognize the importance of formal courses in education for some teachers. But I think that there can be no good teacher who does not have an understanding of the subject which he is teaching.

SHORTAGE OF QUALIFIED SCIENCE TEACHERS

I know that there are many high schools in this country where there are no qualified teachers of science. When I say "no qualified teachers of science," I mean on the basis of low standards, too. There are many high schools which have teachers who have not had any significant training in science.

Yet we live in an increasingly scientific and technological age. If we accept responsibility for the future of our children, we should see that they have contact at the early stages of their education with people who have an understanding of the forces which shape our life and our culture.

The CHAIRMAN. Doctor, as I understand your statement, then, and I have seen it expressed in other places, we have some teachers who

have been highly trained in the teaching techniques, so to speak, but who do not have that training in the content of the courses they are to teach which they should have.

Dr. BRONK. This is certainly true in some cases. I fear it is true in too many cases.

Senator SMITH. Doctor Bronk, I want to express how deeply thrilled I am with your testimony. You say your father mentioned two books to you. Well, my father told me that, if he were cast on a desert island and limited in what he would have there to exist, he would want the Bible and the works of Shakespeare. He felt he would get along pretty well, if he had those two as the standards. I just mentioned that in passing, because my thinking goes along with what you have been saying.

I was, for some time, connected with the administrative end of Princeton University, and I remember getting into bickers of the kind you were discussing, about the purpose of education. Is it just to pump a lot of information into people? No, we came to the conclusion, first, that we were seeking to develop the investigative mind, the question-asking mind. Second, we were seeking some way to release the creative energies of those minds. After all, isn't this what we all have tried to do, or should be trying to do, in this country? That is why I was so enthusiastic about helping to set up the National Science Foundation. There you are putting men into basic science, and pure science, and not telling them what to find at all, but just to experiment, and to use their creative energies.

LOCAL AND STATE RESPONSIBILITY

That is fundamentally my own thinking on this thing. That is why I am so thrilled with your presentation. But I am not quite clear yet on just how far you believe the Federal Government can go, and how much responsibility you feel should be left to the States and the local communities.

You said we should accept more responsibility for education at the grassroots level, in the home and the churches, the schools, the colleges, and in the States, rather than expect to educate people with a big handout from the Federal Government because it cannot be done. But, at the same time, you said, and I agree with you entirely, that we must have the example and the suggestions of the Federal Government if we are to get anywhere.

Your testimony this morning is of the greatest possible value. I would like everybody who is interested in the subject to read what the doctor has said this morning, because I feel that he has covered a subject that is vital to the future security of our country.

The CHAIRMAN. I agree with you, and I wish every Member of the Senate, and of the Congress, too, might have been here to hear this very fine and challenging testimony.

Senator SMITH. I would like to see his statement in the Congressional Record for everybody to read.

I raise this question: Can the Federal Government take any action to improve the curriculum and return to the fundamentals of proper secondary school education, without violating what we call the principle of State and local responsibilities for the schools?

Is there danger of the Federal Government trying to go too far in directing what should be done? Should we try and delegate responsibility for action primarily to the local level, to the States, and to the schools? I would like your thought on that very much.

FEDERAL LEADERSHIP

Dr. BRONK. Senator Smith, I do not believe that there is any danger that would follow from the Federal Government setting higher educational standards, and improving the quality of the teacher.

As I say, this is one of things that the National Science Foundation has been endeavoring to do for some years now. We, for instance, have had summer institutes to which high-school teachers and college teachers could go, and there learn under adequate instructors more about the subject they were teaching to their students.

This, it seems to me, is a very important way of improving the quality of instruction. This, it seems to me, can be done by the Federal Government without in any way impairing the sense of responsibility of the local community.

We have had yearround institutes to which teachers could go and spend a year in revitalizing themselves intellectually, to learn more about what has recently been discovered in their field of science.

They go back to their schools better prepared to teach, and to give their students a vision of what is on the frontiers of knowledge.

The degree to which the teachers will be supported in their subsequent efforts to improve the quality of education will, in turn, depend upon the sense of local responsibility, and the local regard for learning.

If a local community pays its teachers so little that the teachers must spend the time that they should devote to keeping abreast of their field of science in driving taxicabs and working in supermarkets, they are not going to be able to keep themselves intellectually alive and alert.

No matter what we do at the Federal level in giving them improved competence will be dissipated by a wasteful expenditure of their energy in eking out a very poor living.

There need be a balance between the setting of high standards and the developing of competence by the Federal Government, and the continued backing of these people by the local governments.

I look to the Federal Government to give leadership, to set standards, and to give inspiration. But the Federal Government depends upon the people of our country, upon the individual, upon the local government, and upon the county government, and upon the State government.

I do not see any continued strength at the Federal level unless there be a welling up of strength from the grassroots. I do not see strength in the grassroots of education unless there be adequate leadership by the National Government. We are a nation; we are not a disassociated aggregate of local schools which have no relationship to one another.

SCHOLARSHIPS AND SPECIAL TRAINING

Senator SMITH. There have been suggestions along the line of providing scholarships, and setting up special training opportunities for teachers and that kind of help from the Federal Government.

Do you think that that line of legislation is a sound approach, without going into the details of it now?

Dr. BRONK. I do, because I think that this enables one to give emphasis to better educational procedures at the local level.

In a situation that Senator Ives and I are familiar with, all of the high schools in the State of New York were raised in their quality because their students had to satisfy the standards set by the Regents of New York State. If any school fell too low in standards, and quality, its students could not satisfy the Regents' standards and so the local people were made aware of the fact that their community was falling down on the job.

Senator SMITH. That raises the question of whether the Regents' concept should be applied to the Federal level. That is where the objection comes: when the Federal Government tries to call the shots as to what those standards should be, we may be in danger.

Dr. BRONK. I would rather see, for the time being at least, the reresponsibility for the standards left with the States.

Senator SMITH. That is what I want to get at.

Dr. BRONK. And have the Federal Government implement the procedures for education, so that they could be more easily supplied in the several States.

Senator SMITH. I am going to yield because I know other members of the committee have questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Murray.

Senator MURRAY. I only wish to say that I am deeply impressed by the remarks of our distinguished witness this morning. I cannot think of any questions that I could raise at this time. I do think that the problems that were here discussed were the most serious problems confronting our country, and we all need to give them very careful study.

I intend to read over carefully this testimony again in order to completely understand what is confronting us in this country. Thank you.

Senator IVES. Mr. Chairman, in the first place I want to compliment and commended Dr. Bronk on his masterful, remarkable presentation this morning. It is the finest thing that I have heard on this subject or read on this subject. I agree with Senator Smith when he feels that it ought to be placed in the Congressional Record. That is where it belongs, for all to see it. It ought to be published as a matter of fact.

NEW YORK STATE REGENTS

Dr. Bronk referred to New York State and our Regents. I take it that he and I were graduated from high schools in New York at relatively the same time when the standards of Regents were a little bit higher than they are now. I know to get a Regent's certificate for college entrance in my day you had to have algebra, you had to have plane geometry, you were supposed to have solid geometry number 2

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