Second, it would insure the consumers in the trade an ample supply of this type of tobacco.

Third, it would not work a hardship on the producers of types 22 and 23, in that they would be in exactly the same position as the producers of type 21, in other words, their allotments would be determined, based on the supply and demand for that particular type, exactly as would be the case for type 21.

And fourth-and I think a very important point-it would not force the trade that had been accustomed to using type 21 to look elsewhere, possibly to foreign-grown tobaccos, to supply their needs.

Finally, may I say, gentlemen, that speaking for the Virginia Farmers Union, that I am privileged to represent, we wish to associate ourselves with those who have and will testify for H. R. 5002. We strongly urge that the bill be favorably reported by this committee, and subsequently enacted into law.

I wish again to thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of this committee, and Members of Congress here, for the privilege of discussing this matter with you this morning.

Mr. ABBITT. Mr. Vance, we thank you for a very fine and fair and worthwhile statement. We appreciate your coming up here. Any questions?

Mr. McIntire.

Mr. McINTIRE. Could you give us a little bit of further explanation in relation to this 15 percent of acreage that has gone into the soil bank?

Mr. VANCE. Mr. McIntire, I would analyze that situation something like this: I think that when allotments reach a certain point they get to the point that it is not an economical-in other words, you just cannot produce and do it in an efficient and economical fashion, and I would rather think that the explanation for the 15 percent which has gone into the soil bank is that so many of the allotments have been reduced to such a small level that the farmers have decided that they could not efficiently and economically produce it.

Mr. McINTIRE. Then, am I following you then, that the soil-bank participation comes substantially in the matter of putting the total allotment in rather than putting a part of the allotment in?

Mr. VANCE. I think that is right. I would not make that as a positive statement, but that would be my observation of that, sir.

Mr. McINTIRE. You are expecting, under this legislation, that it would result in increased acreages under the allotment program to your type 21?

Mr. VANCE. I think that is problematical. It very well could, or it might not, but I think what it would do would be to do this, and that is, to place type 21 on its own merits, so to speak, so that if there is a need-which we believe there is for more type 21 production, that our growers would be in a position to produce it. If there is no need for it, as the figures would show, then certainly there would be no contention for it.

Mr. McINTIRE. But your hope is that this will result in at least more flexibility to the type 21 producers in relation to their market? Mr. VANCE. That is right.

Mr. McINTIRE. Which would result in perhaps increased acreage? Mr. VANCE. That is right.

Mr. ABBITT. The House is about to meet.

Is there any other witness here that has to leave this afternoon or tonight?

Mr. WATTS. Let us keep them with us.

Mr. ABBITT. Mr. Ford, are you going to leave today?

Mr. FORD. Yes.

Mr. ABBITT. Would you like to have a minute or two?

Mr. Ford is a dark-fired tobacco farmer.

We have a minute or two if you would like to have something to say. STATEMENT OF JAMES FORD, A FARMER, AMELIA COUNTY, VA.

Mr. FORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of this committee, I am James Ford, a small tobacco producer in Amelia County, and I would just like to say that as a small producer I would be very much interested in seeing this bill passed favorably by this committee.

Mr. ABBITT. We appreciate so much your coming all the way from Amelia County up here. We know the gentleman of the committee are glad to hear from these witnesses.

Any questions for Mr. Ford?

Mr. MCMILLAN. If he would like to extend his remarks later, I am certain you would permit him to do so?

Mr. ABBITT. We would permit him to do that, if you would like to, Mr. Ford.

We have time for one more witness. Mr. Bartholomew.

STATEMENT OF PAUL BARTHOLOMEW, CHARLOTTE COUNTY FARM BUREAU

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Paul Bartholomew from Charlotte County, and I am up here representing the members of the Charlotte County Farm Bureau. I am vice president. The president could not be here.

Mr. ABBITT. I appreciate your coming. I saw you when you came in the door, and I said to myself that this is Mr. Tuck's constituent. We grow fine tobaccos in the Fourth District, I think, along with the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh Districts, the finest dark-fired tobacco there is. We are glad to hear from you at this time.

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. I cannot add to what the other gentlemen have said.

From our own county I can say that type 21 tobacco is important to the economy of our county. As you all well recognize we are taking considerable cuts in flue-cured tobacco as well as type 21 that is coming on.

If you lived in that county I think you would recognize that the people are interested in procuring work. There are some sidelines to this that I think are important to the Nation as a whole. We are very, very interested in our reforestation and our forest products, soil conservation, water conservation. I happen to be president of the club down there and we are constantly pushing that, and I happen to know that due to the fact that the farmers down there cannot make a sufficient living from raising tobacco they are diverting their attentions to other things in an attempt to support their families, and there is a constantly increasing depletion of our forestry resources due to that condition.

I can speak of that with all sincerity and be positive of that.

I think if the farmers were able to make possibly a better living from their tobacco efforts, there would not be as much timber cut as there is now, and in the manner in which it is cut, which is detrimental to our future, the future of our Nation.

Mr. ABBITT. We certainly do appreciate your coming here, and thank you for your statement.

Mr. WATTS. I would like to make one statement.

In addition to growing good tobacco, you grow some mighty fine Congressmen down there, particularly our chairman.

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. Yes.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Mr. Tuck is your representative, is he not?

Mr. BARTHOLOMEW. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCMILLAN. He is one of the ablest men in Congress. I understand he is making his statement tomorrow.

Mr. ABBITT. He was here, and we announced that he would make his statement tomorrow. He and Congressman Poff and Congressman Harrison were here, from Virginia, and Congressman Natcher was here from Kentucky, and Senator Cooper was here. We will hear them tomorrow.

The subcommittee will stand in recess until 10 a. m. tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 12 noon Wednesday, April 10, 1957, the subcommittee recessed to 10 a. m. April 11, 1957.)

TOBACCO-VIRGINIA FIRE-CURED AND SUN-CURED

THURSDAY, APRIL 11, 1957

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON TOBACCO, OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, in room 1310, New House Office Building, at 10 a. m., Hon. Watkins M. Abbitt (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Abbitt (presiding), McMillan, Polk, Watts, Bass, Matthews, Dague, McIntire, and Teague.

Committee members also present: Representative Johnson.

Staff members present: Mabel C. Downey, clerk.

Also present: Representatives Poff, Harrison, and Tuck.

Mr. ABBITT. Let the subcommittee come to order.

We will try to finish the hearings today so far as the witnesses or proponents of the bill are concerned.

We have Mr. Joe Hazelgrove from Farmville, Va., who is a darkfired tobacco grower.

Will you come forward at this time?

STATEMENT OF JOE HAZELGROVE, A GROWER, FARMVILLE, VA.

Mr. ABBITT. We will be glad to hear from you now, Joe.

Mr. HAZELGROVE. Mr. Chairman and members of the Agriculture Committee; my name is Joe Hazelgrove, and I am a farmer located at Farmville, Va. I appear here today as a Virginia dark-fired tobacco

grower.

I have been raising tobacco all of my life. My father raised tobacco on the same farm all of his life. He raised and marketed 65 crops.

Dark-fired tobacco is our main money crop in central Virginia. It is the most dependable cash crop that we have. Dark-fired tobacco is well adapted to our soil types and farming operations. Many of our farmers have no additional source of income. Our allotted acreage has been cut through the years, in fact, reduced so rapidly that a lot of us are forced not to raise tobacco. Those of us who are still raising tobacco do not have adequate acres. A few more years like we are going now and we will be forced out of the tobacco business entirely. As farmers we do not desire to produce a surplus of tobacco, but we would like to produce as much tobacco as the trade can consume. And if we are allowed to do this we can continue in business.

We are asking that our type of tobacco be separated from the other types of dark-fired tobacco in order that we may be put on our own.

As farmers we are willing to stand on our own footing, to have our own parity, and, if we produce more tobacco than is needed, we are perfectly willing to take the cut so long as that cut is applicable only to type 21 of our tobacco.

A question was raised yesterday as to whether Virginia-type tobacco and Kentucky-types were the same. As a farmer and grower of tobacco, I would like to say this: For the past 2 years we have obtained some type 22 tobacco seed and have tried to grow it, but it was a rather disappointing experience, both from a quality standpoint and from a price differential. Most of it or a lot of it went to the Commodity Credit because it was not desired by the buyers.

Gentlemen, we are only asking that you separate our type tobacco from the other two types, put us on our own and give us an opportunity to sell our production on its own merits. If we produce more than the trade wants, we are willing to take a cut.

That is about all that I have that I would like to say.

Thank you.

Mr. ABBITT. Thank you very much for that fine statement.

Is there any question from any member of the subcommittee?

Mr. MCMILLAN. Would you like to give the committee the exact reasons why you want to be separated from the burley-tobacco growers? Mr. HAZELGROVE. From the what now?

Mr. MCMILLAN. In 3 or 4 words could you tell us the exact reasons why you want to be separated?

Mr. HAZELGROVE. From Kentucky and Tennessee?

Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes.

Mr. HAZELGROVE. Or the other two types?

Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes; the other two types of tobacco.

Mr. HAZELGROVE. Yes.

We are advised there is more of a surplus of their stocks than of ours, that the market wants our type of tobacco; they cannot find substitutes in the other two types; and, naturally, we are losing our export markets since they are turning to Rhodesia and other sources to try to substitute for our type of tobacco; and we feel that our type is a little more salable in some of the export channels than possible the other two.

Mr. MCMILLAN. Is it your opinion there is more demand for your type of tobacco in the export trade than the other?

Mr. HAZELGROVE. We are told we are not raising enough to supply the demand and that the export trade is turning to other sources to try to find a substitute for our tobacco.

Mr. MCMILLAN. You do not think that they would begin to use burley-type tobacco? You think they would turn to Rhodesian

tobacco.

Mr. HAZELGROVE. To burley?

Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes.

Mr. HAZELGROVE. Burley and our type of tobacco are not interchangeable. I am sure of that.

Mr. MCMILLAN. That is all.

Mr. WATTS. Let me make one qualifying statement. This is not a separation of type 21 from burley. Burley is a distinctive type. That has been already settled.