Right at this present time there is another prominently recognized food processing agency interested in coming into that area. The point I would like to make and I think is very pertinent, Mr. Chairman, is this: That big companies such as Swift & Co. and A. & P., Colonial Stores, can construct this type of food distribution areas. But a farmer, small business people, and as you so aptly described, Mr. Anfuso, a while ago, the small operator, the dealer, the man that actually handles the produce, he cannot get that kind of capital or financial help that he needs to do this, to get set up and come into this kind of a farmers' market. At this time I want to repeat myself, had it not been for the integrity and courage of this gentleman to do this, Mr. J. W. York and his associates, we would not have this farmers' market in this area. The CHAIRMAN. You do have the market and it is operating well and successfully. You pointed out your need to expand the area and you need additional long-term financing? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. If this bill should be enacted, you believe that your marketing facility will meet all the requirements of the law? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. That the sponsors will be eligible for the credit provided by this bill? Mr. GRAHAM. We would hope so. The CHAIRMAN. Now you do have, and I want you to comment on that, a place in the market for farmers to transact business? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. They drive in with the trucks and unload on platforms and dispose of their produce right there in the market place? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, in that connection there is a great amount of lip talk and different descriptions given this day and time and a lot through the ear. We must do more for our farm people and small business people through the eye. And at this time I would like to extend to you, Mr. Chairman and the members of this committee, a very cordial invitation to come down to Raleigh and look over our faculty and see it and I think, when you see it and see how the market is planned and what it means, you will have a better understanding of what we are talking about. The CHAIRMAN. In that connection I have suggested to the committee that any member of the committee or any group that wanted to go down there, we would provide a way to get them there and back. I think they would be greatly impressed with the efficiency of that market operation. Mr. GRAHAM. Thank you. Mr. GATHINGS. I want to say I enjoyed my visit down there last year and it was very thought-provoking to go through that facility. As I recall, you have about a 30-store building? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. Thirty units. Mr. GATHINGS. And the rent is reasonable in price? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. GATHINGS. You came into this area and as a result of establishing this farmers' market at that very strategic location, a A. & P. and colonial and the distributorship for the farm implement and other big companies did follow suit, is that right? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir, and I might make this point, Mr. Gathings, that not particularly in this area but it goes to our whole area there, out to the other side of town another chain known as Bendix is building a large facility who utilizes our market. That proves that the farmers' market in any area helps the overall area. The CHAIRMAN. That market probably serves half of North Carolina. It is not for the city only but is for the farmers and merchants in the whole area? Mr. GRAHAM. That is right. The CHAIRMAN. Produce from all parts of the United States falls into that market. Mr. GRAHAM. That is right. We have cantaloups from the west coast received yesterday. Apples from all over the country. The men tell me, those involved in the market, with our location, they are able to get it out and get it to the housewife sooner, and that is who we are vitally concerned with. We must give the housewife what she wants, not what we think she wants. This gentlemen over here made reference to the chainstores monopolizing the thing. One of the reasons is because of the great cost that is added to any commodity by going through these outdated facilities. What we are trying to do here and what is the intent of the bill is to try to provide facilities well planned so you can expedite the movement of perishable commodities. We recognize how vital it is for the fresh commodities to get to where they are destined to go. In other words, as you well know, the produce is very fluctuating in price and it is very vital to have facilities. You made reference to the market in New York. I have been there. It is terrible. You go on up to Philadelphia. But of course you find the same thing there. Right here we want to show to you what this market in Raleigh is doing. To go ahead with the question about what the farmers have. We have a farmers' shed where the farmers can bring their produce into the market and have an opportunity to sell it, where it is prepackaged and presented properly and gives him an opportunity to sell. The CHAIRMAN. The farmer certainly is not the only man who profits by the operation of that market; is he? Mr. GRAHAM. Oh, no, sir. The CHAIRMAN. The entire community and everything in it stands to profit by it. Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Anfuso? Mr. ANFUSO. As a result of your operation you have not only reduced cost but you have improved the health of the community and pleased the housewife; have you not? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. WATTS. You say the market has been in operation about a year and a half? Mr. GRAHAM. It was opened September 1955 and has been in operation ever since. Mr. WATTS. Are you utilizing all of your space? Mr. GRAHAM. No. Mr. WATTS. You have reached maximum operating efficiency? Mr. GRAHAM. No, sir, and that is one of the points that I definitely want to leave with you. That is that we have recognized; that we must have additional services in order to do the job that needs doing. In other words, we consulted all of the authorities to build the kind of market we thought would do the job and we allowed ourselves space for expansion. Now, due to changes, we find we must add to the market and we must provide additional services, and we find, when you provide additional services, you have to have capital, and we are not in a position because we strained ourselves beyond Mr. WATTS. You are not utilizing the entire facility you have constructed? Mr. GRAHAM. Oh, yes, sir; all refrigeration space is fully utilized and all the space is rented and underneath the farmers' shed is an openair construction which is under rent at this time. Mr. WATTS. These different rooms you have you rent those out to local people? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes; people who handle fresh produce. Mr. WATTS. They pay you a monthly rent? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes. Mr. WATTS. What about the farmers' trucks? Mr. GRAHAM. The only charge we make to the farmer is on a wheel basis. As he comes in to the gates he pays on the basis of how many wheels he has. If he has a pickup truck, he pays $0.75. If he has a 6-wheel truck, he pays $1.50. Mr. WATTS. Does he have to-can the farmer sell to the housewife or to people engaged Mr. GRAHAM. He can sell to anybody, sir. Mr. WATTS. On the basis of your present operation, are you carrying your carrying charges at a reasonable amortization on the building? Mr. GRAHAM. We are attempting to do so. Mr. WATTS. How is it working out? Mr. GRAHAM. Well, at this stage Mr. TROTTER. Mr. Watts, let me comment. The loan that is on the premises, the short-term loan-because it is a short-term loan, the market is experiencing some difficulty although it is meeting its payment and everything is current. It is difficult for it to do it. You might say the market is cash poor. Mr. WATTS. What is the length of your loan? Mr. TROTTER. Ten years. Mr. WATTS. If your loan was 30 or 40 years, would you have any difficulty in meeting your operating cost plus your retirement? Mr. TROTTER. I do not think so. As a matter of fact, we would love to have a 30-year loan. Mr. GRAHAM. I will put it in plain words: It would ease our pain. Mr. WATTS. Is your financial operation such-if you had a 40-year loan, would you have any problem meeting the loan? Mr. GRAHAM. Well, we are meeting the 10-year loan. The CHAIRMAN. You say it is rather burdensome for you to meet the 10-vear loan. Mr. TROTTER. It is worse than burdensome. We are straining to do it. Mr. GRAHAM. This is a very pertinent point, and I think, Mr. Watts, this will help clarify your question: In case we cannot see a little better on down the road in some long-term financing, we are going to be forced to Mr. WATTS. Do you raise a lot of vegetables in your community that are sold at this market? Mr. GRAHAM. There is considerable interest in vegetables and quite a bit grown there but not quite as much as we would anticipate and hope. The CHAIRMAN. Well, there is a campaign now on to bring about and to increase production of fruits and vegetables in that area. Mr. GRAHAM. Yes. Mr. WATTS. What has been the experience of the farmers? Mr. WATTS. The price they received since the new facilities have been installed in relation to the price they received for their produce under the old system? Mr. GRAHAM. I have been out meeting with the farmers during the past 3 or 4 weeks and I have asked them that question. All I can say is they say they are satisfied. We do not have an auction. We try to provide a market place for buyers and sellers to meet. If a man has a good-quality product, he finds the market for it and the price that day. Mr. WATTS. Yes. I see. Mr. GRAHAM. Anybody can bring his produce in here and package it and sell it. New York has been referred to here as a distribution market. I think I am right on that. But this market is an assembly distribution market. I repeat, Mr. Chairman, this is a unique market of its kind. Mr. WATTS. You would say the market has provided an outlet for the commodities the farmers raise? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes, sir. Mr. TROTTER. Let me make a point there: Our people, as you know, are predominantly tobacco farmers. Mr. WATTS. So am I. Mr. TROTTER. And we are having a hard time switching them over. We have folks who will come in there and bring corn and they will pick it and just throw it in a sack and it is not in a marketable condition. Jim is going through agonies trying to provide these people with facilities where they can bring their corn down there and have it graded and ready to go. Jim, tell them about the watermelon campaign. Mr. WATTS. I have about asked all the questions I wanted to and I want to ask if the market results in the farmer receiving better prices for his product? Mr. TROTTER. Yes; I do, and that is due to the fact the present change that has taken place over 5 percent of the food brought in in this Nation is bought by the chainstore people. Here we have right at our door the Colonial Store warehouse, the A. & P. and Winn-Dixie warehouse that can utilize this market. So there is where the market comes in. You say you are a tobacco farmer; from where? Mr. WATTS. Kentucky. I know what you are going through with and the present conditions of buyers, and so on, but North Carolina has a lot of small farms and certainly vegetable production will blend in with their system of farming. Mr. GRAHAM. This way we help. We do not know whether it is the answer or not but at this time it looks the best to us that we know how. We are trying to put on a watermelon program-our market with the help of the Department of Agriculture-when you start selling watermelons you have got to have a place to sell them in volume. The CHAIRMAN. The Wachovia Bank, one of the big banking institutions of the State, has put a branch out there. Mr. GRAHAM. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. The First Citizens National Bank has put a bank out in that area? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. That would be some indication that at least the bankers think the project is a sound one? Mr. GRAHAM. Yes. I was interested in the testimony of the American Bankers Association representative. The Wachovia Bank & Trust Co. has recently put on an agriculture department and their representative is working very closely with us in trying to develop this market and we have made him a member of our advisory committee to try to help us do a better job for the farmer. I might say this, that in connection with that, in addition to myself and Mr. Trotter, we are guided by an advisory committee to operate the market and they set up the policies, and we have the aid of the Commissioner of Agriculture of North Carolina, the dean of North Carolina State College, the county agent of our county, 2 farmers, 1 from Johnson County and 1 from Wake County, and 1 representative of the Raleigh Chamber of Commerce-they all are on the advisory committee. Mr. KRUEGER. Now that you have such a wonderful market there and operating so successfully, why are you not in a position to pay off your obligations? The CHAIRMAN. You have been operating only for a short time. Mr. KRUEGER. You would not have to pay it all. The CHAIRMAN. He said they were meeting their payments. Mr. TROTTER. We would have obtained a longer term loan if we could get it. Mr. KRUEGER. How long a term do you have? Mr. TROTTER. Ten years, I think. We got it through a local building and loan company. The CHAIRMAN. What you actually need is the financing provided by a bill like this? Mr. TROTTER. Exactly. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, you could meet the payments easier? Mr. KRUEGER. Where would you put a market like that in New York City? The CHAIRMAN. The location has been selected. The market is right in the old part of town, the most congested area in the city. You saw the picture yesterday, how they have to handle it. Mr. KRUEGER. I think it is dreadful. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, indeed. Mr. McINTIRE. Mr. Chairman, may I say I visited this market and I am tremendously impressed with the job that has been done there. I can see basically what needs to be done in many other cities. |