Mr. MCMILLAN. Do you happen to know about the average acreage in tobacco the average farmer has? Mr. MARTIN. Only the number of contracts, Mr. McMillan. That is about the only basis. The A. F. C. has the number and the number of allotted. Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes. Mr. MARTIN. It is a little less than 2 acres. Mr. MCMILLAN. A little less than 2 acres. Mr. MARTIN. Yes. Mr. MCMILLAN. That the farmer has allotted. Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir. Mr. MCMILLAN. Is it not true that, in the flue-cured tobacco areas, it costs the farmers just about as much to produce 2 acres of tobacco as it does 4? Mr. MARTIN. Yes; when you get into overhead. Mr. MCMILLAN. It costs just about as much to produce 2 acres as it does 4 acres of tobacco; it takes just about as much fuel to cure it as it would for 4? Mr. MARTIN. Yes; the overhead is the same. In little Williamsburg County there are 900 growers there who have less than an acre of tobacco. And about 300 that have less than three-tenths of an acre. Mr. MCMILLAN. How long do you think the people in South Carolina will vote for this program if we continue to reduce the acreage? Mr. MARTIN. Well they are divided about 50-50 now. That is about the best I can estimate. Mr. MCMILLAN. If you give a fellow a thousand pounds of tobacco it won't do him any good if he does not have the acres to grow it on. Mr. MARTIN. That is exactly right. We had cases where some farmers, just a few years ago, that was brought up at our committee meet at Florence, where they had 21 acres, and now they only have 11. So it has hit our big growers just as much as it has the little grower. They have already taken a big cut. Mr. MCMILLAN. There is a great deal of talk in South Carolina about creating a separate stabilization bureau. Do you hear anything about that? Mr. MARTIN. Well only hearsay, Mr. McMillan. I would not be in a position to comment on that, except just from the ground roots. Mr. MCMILLAN. Well that is the way I have heard of it. Thank Mr. McINTIRE. Mr. Martin, there are just 2 or 3 points, to bring this down to its simple operation in order to be objective, and this is not in a critical sense at all. Mr. MARTIN. I understand. Mr. McINTIRE. The situation as far as acreage cuts are concerned have reached a rather intolerable point; is that about the size of it? Mr. MARTIN. I have come in contact with a lot of tobacco growers in a lot of my work which leads me to say that I would certainly say that it is at the critical stage now. Mr. McINTIRE. Through the adjustment. Mr. MARTIN. It was even before the 20 percent. Mr. MCINTIRE. Yes, but the adjustment, particularly with the smaller allotment has virtually reached the point where the decision is whether to be a tobacco farmer or not. Mr. MARTIN. Yes; and the decision has already been made by many of them. Mr. MCINTIRE. I appreciate that, but it is still a problem. Mr. McINTIRE. For those who have not made the decision. Mr. McINTIRE. And if other cuts come it would become a decision for more of them. Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir. Mr. McINTIRE. Now do I also understand that basically that would be for soil bank purposes, which of course would also probably relate to price support-I don't know. Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir. Mr. McINTIRE. But that is what was told me. But at least for soil bank purposes you are saying that the 1956 allotment should be the minimum acreage. Mr. MARTIN. That is right. Mr. McINTIRE. Now in relation to Public Law 480 is there any type of movement under the provisions of that act now? Mr. MARTIN. Oh, I think there has been. Mr. McINTIRE. There has been. Mr. MARTIN. Yes, yes. Mr. McINTIRE. Has it been the types which are troublesome in relation to surplus? Mr. MARTIN. Now if you will ask some of the buyers-I don't know. I have also heard that they did not have-right now they do not have too much of that undesirable on hand. And it is not as burdensome as it was. Mr. MCMILLAN. Don't you think if we insist on selling this 150 million pounds there won't be any on hand? Mr. MARTIN. It is very doubtful. Mr. McINTIRE. Perhaps Mr. McMillan you could answer this question. Is there a limitation within the present administrative procedures of the law itself, in Public Law 480, that prohibits the sale? Mr. MARTIN. I don't know, unless it is money. Mr. WILLIAMS. May I answer that? Mr. McINTIRE. Yes. Mr. WILLIAMS. No limitation. Mr. ABBITT. For the record your name is Mr. WILLIAMS. Joseph R. Williams, Director of the Tobacco Division. Mr. McINTIRE. May I ask Mr. Williams if the only limitation is a place to dispose of it? Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. Robert Owen, Director of Foreign Agriculture Tobacco Division, market development and programs. Mr. OWEN. That is correct; the only limitation is customers. Mrs. BLITCH. Is what? Mr. OWEN. Is customers. Mr. McINTIRE. I will yield if you wish to ask a question, Mrs. Blitch. Mrs. BLITCH. Thank you, I just wanted to understand his answer. Mr. McINTIRE. Even to the extent, in the rather broad area in which you can work under Public Law 480-and I am thinking more in terms of the current problem-even to that extent there is still the problem of where do you go? Mr. OWEN. Yes, sir; there is relatively speaking a limited market for these tobaccos. Mrs. BLITCH. May I ask a question there? Mr. ABBITT. Certainly. Mr. OWEN. I was going to say that most of these customers desire a type of tobacco, which they do not have, to fill in their need. Mr. McÎNTIRE. Mr. Chairman, I have listed certain items which the Department may not have available today, and if it would not burden the record, would it be possible for the Department to incorporate in the record, immediately following their statement, some tables that would indicate how much is moving under Public Law 480. Mr. OWEN. I am sure we can give you that. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. Mr. ABBITT. You are asking that be supplied for the record? Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not have those records with me--I may havebut I am sure we can get it. Mr. ABBITT. You can get that information for us. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. OWEN. We have here some tables that may be furnished for the record. Mr. WILLIAMS. We will be glad to supply them. (For data requested above, see pp. 56, 57, 61, and 63.) Mr. ABBITT. Mr. Martin we appreciate very much your coming and your statement. Mr. MARTIN. I appreciate the opportunity of being here, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ABBITT. Is there any other witness who would like to be heard? The bell has rung and we do not have much time left. Mr. MCMILLAN. Mr. Manning, do you want to make a statement on either one of these bills? STATEMENT OF HOUSTON MANNING, FARMER, SOUTH CAROLINA Mr. MANNING. Mr. Chairman, I was just glancing over H. R. 768, and I would certainly say that it would be of great help to the tobacco farmers. I am not prepared to make any statement that would be worthwhile. because I have not had opportunity to go into the bill very much. But I know from going over the different bills here today it appears that most of our tobacco farmers are in straitened conditions. I know that the flue-cured tobacco farmers are. I was at the Associates from Raleigh a week ago yesterday, and it was the best opinion, of the best informed tobacco men, that our poundage this year is going to cut this year 36 percent—that is, the acreage was going to be cut down 36 percent. Well a 36-percent cut in tobacco means a lot of injury to the tobacco farmer's income. And if there is not some remedy or aid extended to them they are going to find it mighty tough going. I appreciate very much your efforts here in behalf of all of the tobacco farmers. I presume that the other tobacco growers are probably in the same position as the flue-cured tobacco farmers. I think that is about all I can say, except to add that I do appreciate the opportunity to be here. Mr. ABBITT. Thank you very much. We appreciate your coming and the statement you have given us. Mr. MCMILLAN. Mr. Manning came up specifically to testify before the Cotton Subcommittee, but knowing of his interest in tobacco I asked him to be here too. Mr. ABBITT. We are delighted to have you. Any questions Mr. McIntire? Mr. McINTIRE. No, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ABBITT. I wonder if we could have by tomorrow-if you do not have the figure now-showing the amount of soil bank participation for 1957. Do you think you could make that information available by tomorrow? Mr. WILLIAMS. We will give you the most recent figures we have, Mr. Chairman. Mr. ABBITT. And will you also give us the figures which show what the allotments were for the year 1956, by States; and how much the allotments have been put in the soil bank for 1957? Mr. MARTIN. I can give you that for South Carolina now, if you wish. Mr. ABBITT. Very well. Mr. MARTIN. There were 83,000 acres, allotment; and we had 102,000 last year. And we have in the soil bank this year, less than 5 percent-3,980 in the soil bank. That averages about $251 per acre payments in the soil bank, in South Carolina. That was the figures from the ASC statement. Mr. ABBITT. If you will get that information for us, Mr. Williams. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; we will supply that. Mr. ABBITT. Is there any other information any member of the committee would like to have the Department bring over in the morning? Mr. JENNINGS. Mr. Chairman, I think and this may have been brought out-just how much would this cost? Mr. ABBITT. H. R. 768? Mr. JENNINGS. How much would it cost? Mr. ABBITT. The Treasury Department. Mr. MARTIN. About $5 million for South Carolina. Mr. OWEN. About $44 million; between forty-four and forty-five million dollars. Mr. JENNINGS. The mandatory cuts that were placed in the soil bank would cost $44 million. Mr. OWEN. That is almost $45 million. Mr. McINTIRE. May I ask an additional question on that? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. Mr. McINTIRE. Do you have the figures to show the cost for this year? Mr. WILLIAMS. We can get those by tomorrow. You want what it would cost, if we took all of the mandatory cuts. Mr. JENNINGS. Yes. Mr. BASS. Mr. Chairman, I have introduced a bill which would make the payments at 50 percent of parity. And what I would like is the cost at the present rate for all mandatory cuts for all types of tobacco for 1957. Mr. WILLIAMS. We will have that information tomorrow. Mr. ABBITT. And then will you include also the cost of the tobaccos that have already been put in the soil bank? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. ABBITT. Those will be the latest figures? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. I might say that we may not have that accurate, because in line with the reasoning of this subcommittee the Under Secretary on the 20th did remove all limitations on tobacco. Mrs. BLITCH. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one question? Mr. ABBITT. Yes, Mrs. Blitch. Mrs. BLITCH. What percentage of parity is being paid per pound on tobacco that goes into the soil bank under the present regulations? Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, let us take last year, the rate was about 371⁄2 percent. Mrs. BLITCH. And how does that compare with other commodities that are being put in the soil bank? Mr. WILLIAMS. I think some of them are 50 and 60 percent. However, we do have some changes in tobacco that we do not have in other types of commodities. You will recall-and this was in line with the committee when we set up the soil-bank yield we wanted a realistic yield, so in setting that yield up we took the 3 highest years from 1950 to 1955 and divided that by 3 and that was the farmer's allotment. Mrs. BLITCH. May I ask why the difference in parity in tobacco from the other commodities? Mr. WILLIAMS. To tell you frankly the way we arrived at it was we took the amount of money that was available and then tried to divide it out equitably between the different types of tobacco. Mrs. BLITCH. Mr. Chairman, would you mind my mentioning this bill which I have introduced? Mr. ABBITT. We will be glad to have you do so. Mrs. BLITCH. This would increase parity-I think it is 18 cents a pound? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, that is correct. Mrs. BLITCH. To increase parity to 26 cents a pound and increase the amount of money for the tobacco program $100 million a year instead of, I believe it is, $45 million. This is just to give the people here the information that that bill is in the Congress, and to let them be thinking about it, to say whether or not they like it and whether or not they think it would be of any help. Mr. ARRITT. We certainly appreciate your remarks. Mr. McMillan, I wonder if we could meet in your committee room tomorrow morning? Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes. Mr. ABBITT. Will you make those arrangements for us? Mr. MCMILLAN. Yes. Mr. ARRITT. Suppose you tell us the number of your room? Mr. MCMILLAN. 445 in the Old Building. Mr. ABBITT. That is the District of Columbia Committee Room. Mr. MCMILLAN. I think all of the tobacco Congressmen should be invited. Mr. ABBITT. I was going to have them called. That will give us plenty of room. That will be at 10 o'clock. |