where is the replacement going to come from? Which leads me to the question of EPA filing the lawsuit against a number of electric powerplants that I have already addressed in the sense that they feel they are violating the Clean Air Act and triggering new source performance standards.

So the question obviously is, what impact will this have on the price and reliability of power? And I say reliability in the sense of our mutual concern, particularly this coming summer. Does not the Department of Energy want to show some leadership on this issue, or are you content to let the EPA set the U.S. energy policies in some of these areas that are of critical concern to the ability to produce adequate electric generation?

Secretary RICHARDSON. Senator, I failed to answer part of your last question. I will do it very quickly, and then I will answer this

one.

The CHAIRMAN. I am glad that you are thinking about things that I brought up, in retrospect.

Secretary RICHARDSON. In my haste to talk about no stand-alone reliability bill. You asked me a question about siting, and I just want to be clear. We do not think it is wise to preempt the States in their present endeavor in taking the lead when it comes to siting and approval. However, there are some cases that if you have a jurisdictional issue, whether a State is going to or not going to provide power to consumers in another State, we rely on what are called regional solutions. And we want to encourage regional compacts to address this problem. So I did want to be clear on that. On the question you asked, Senator, we are participating, we the Department of Energy, in the decisionmaking in the interagency on this issue that you mentioned. We are also considering regulatory changes to underline what are called new modified source requirements. We will be part of the debate. Just as a general policy, it is not appropriate for me to intervene in pending litigation, but I would like to brief you on some of the initiatives that we have taken in this area and our deliberations with EPA.

The CHAIRMAN. We understand that. On the other hand, we think the Department of Energy should express themselves as an advocate for energy production, because you are going to bear the responsibility, not the EPA, if we have brownouts. And of course you may blame the Congress, but, nevertheless, would you be willing to come to a hearing with the Environmental Protection Agency to try and explain the responsibility that you have to ensure that there is enough power to meet demand as EPA looks at their responsibility of interpreting missions and so forth?

Secretary RICHARDSON. Yes, either in a hearing, Senator, or I could privately talk to you. Whatever you choose.

The CHAIRMAN. I think at a hearing we have a mutual opportunity for an exchange that we do not privately. But I would always welcome you to a private discussion at any time with me.

Senator Akaka, please proceed. And please excuse me. I have to go over to the House and participate in the enrollment of something that you will find gratifying. And that is the House passage of the nuclear waste legislation. It is a little short of a veto override, but maybe we will be able to accomplish some miracles over

there. I know you would like to see this issue resolved, and so would I.

And as you know, we are two votes short in the Senate. So if you will excuse me, I will wish you a good day.

Senator Akaka.

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am glad to hear of your agreement in support of the Energy Department on passage of the SPR bill. I hope that happens soon.

Secretary Richardson, I personally want to thank you for your tireless diplomatic efforts over the past month to combat the unpopular gasoline prices that have risen here. And I would tell you that what you have done is very commendable. The American people appreciate what you have done to generate increased oil supplies and control runaway gas prices. And I am so glad to hear that you have exceeded your goal, above 1.7 million, up to 2.8 million barrels to help this situation.

Your energy diplomacy in meetings with leaders of OPEC and other oil-producing nations has resulted in more stable and lower gas prices and the prospect of lower prices in the future, as you mentioned. I must tell you that you have, Mr. Secretary, served our country very well.

I have two questions that I want to ask. One of the goals of PURPA was to encourage the development and utilization of renewable energy resources. In the increasingly competitive environment of the future, the viability of the renewable energy resources and their important benefits I feel may be at risk. My question is, will renewables prosper in the new energy marketplace? And secondly, should Congress take separate legislative action to protect the benefits of renewable energy resources?

Secretary RICHARDSON. Senator Akaka, first, I want to thank you for your very kind words. I only regret that Senator Murkowski did not hear them.

[Laughter.]

Secretary RICHARDSON. But I am sure they will be communicated to him. I deeply appreciate your kind words.

A lot of criticism was leveled at me. One, that I put too much pressure on the countries; others, that I had a tin cup. What I look at is the results. And the results work. Whatever we did worked. Our energy diplomacy worked. The President and Vice President played key roles in very strategic phone calls.

Do I regret being aggressive during the OPEC meeting by telephoning and communicating America's views? No.

Did I upset some countries? Yes. Apparently Iran and possibly others.

Would I do what I did again? Yes.

So thank you for your words. The results are good for America's consumers. Gasoline prices are gradually going down, and that was our objective.

Now, we need to have a sound energy policy, a bipartisan policy. And the renewable component that you mentioned is essential. The Congress has not funded our renewable budget or our renewable tax incentives or fuel efficient cars. So I think it is important that now, more than ever, so that we reduce our dependence on foreign oil, so that we have a broad-based energy security portfolio, that

we once again as a Nation commit to solar, wind, biomass, geothermal, and your favorite, the methane initiative and others. I am very much for that, Senator.

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. I thank you for your remarks here today. I like your continuing effort to work with the bipartisan group here in the Senate.

I also want to thank the other witnesses who have appeared here in panel 1 this morning. And, again, thank you so much for helping us with your thoughts about energy and about the bills that we are considering.

Thank you very much, and I close this session this morning.
Secretary RICHARDSON. Thank you, Senator.

[Whereupon, at 12:39 p.m., the hearing was recessed, to be reconvened on April 13, 2000.]

ELECTRIC POWER INDUSTRY COMPETITION

LEGISLATION

THURSDAY, APRIL 13, 2000

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES,

Washington, DC.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:35 a.m., in room SH-216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. Frank Murkowski, chairman, presiding.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK H. MURKOWSKI, U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

The CHAIRMAN. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I think it is appropriate to call the hearing to order at this time. And we have I think, a very qualified list of witnesses this morning. And I will announce them as they are seated, but we are joined by the Honorable Congressman Joe Barton this morning.

And I am told he is going to be accompanied by Senator Jim Jeffords, who has been involved in the Singing Senators. And I think our good fortune this morning is that they are not here. But in any event, I was not invited to join Senator Lott's esteemed Singing Senators. And I do not think Senator Bingaman was either. Were you?

Senator BINGAMAN. That is a Republican organization.

The CHAIRMAN. Excuse me. Well, this is a-this is a bipartisan hearing, at least to start. It will probably change with my opening remarks.

Let me welcome you here today. As you know, this is the second of three hearings on electric legislation. We had, at Tuesday's hearing, I think, a valuable contribution to the record, which is going to help us move ahead on electric deregulation. The witnesses gave us a lot of food for thought.

I was pleased by the Secretary's endorsement of making all transmission lines fully subject to FERC open-access jurisdiction, including federally owned and municipally owned and cooperatively owned transmission lines.

And I think this is-Senator Bingaman and I would agree this is an important component of our bill.

We are going to hold the third and final hearing on the matter April 27. We are going to have the full FERC testifying. And hopefully, after the full FERC individually testifies, we will be enlightened. We are looking for enlightenment.

But after that, we are going to get to the hard part, and that is, the committee is going to have to decide a process of proceeding.