years, they have developed a good nutrition program based on commodities to get the most out of commodities. And now they are concerned that they are having to start all over again with food stamps. Senator HUDDLESTON. One thing that bothers me about all the proposals to substitute cash contributions for programs that are in effect now for people who need help is that it imposes new burdens on people least qualified or prepared to make distinctions about nutrition and about what they are going to do with that money.

A lot of people would have money handed to them who would not be able, in my judgment, to utilize it to the best interest of their family. In other cases, it may be a question of being able to make the kinds of decision that have to be made.

Mr. TRIMBLE. There is one problem, and that is there are people who cannot buy food stamps for lack of any money.

Senator HUDDLESTON. You mentioned a period of 2 years necessary for the transition to come about. Is this a considered judgment as compared to 1 year, or some other period of time?

Mr. TRIMBLE. This is the response we get from a number of tribal people. Another thing is to inform the people so they can benefit without a long gap of suffering on their part-by the way, I would like to introduce something else for staff consideration and possible support in line with communication efforts.

We submitted a proposal to the Indian Health Service Emergency Food Service of OEO for a program to develop and implement a food stamp information program on a national basis.

Senator HUDDLESTON. Do you have an estimate on what percentage of the Indians are on the commodity or stamp program?

Mr. TRIMBLE. No, I do not. I do not know of anybody who does that. On a national level, we can run a survey for you, if you would like, but you could also go on the thought that the Indian reservations on a national average have a 45-percent unemployement rate as opposed to a 7.0 on a nationwide basis.

Based on that, you can make a pretty good assumption of the massive needs of the Indian community.

Senator HUDDLESTON. Thank you for your statement, Mr. Trimble. We will now hear from Eugene Begay, executive director, United Southeastern Tribes, Sarasota, Fla.

STATEMENT OF EUGENE BEGAY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNITED SOUTHEASTERN TRIBES, SARASOTA, FLA.

Mr. BEGAY. My name is Eugene Begay, and I am the executive. director of the United Southeastern Tribes of Sarasota, Fla. We have executive offices in Sarasota, Fla.

We are an inter-tribal organization composed of six federally recognized tribes in the Southeast, namely the Seneca Nation in New York, the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina, the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians, the Chitimacha Tribe in Louisiana, the Miccosukee Tribe of Florida, near Miami, and the Seminole Tribe of Florida near Hollywood, Fla.

I am grateful for this opportunity to present the United Southeastern Tribes' position regarding the food legislation program, the

current act and the amendment currently being proposed by Senator McGovern.

The United Southeastern Tribes is an area membership organization of the National Congress of American Indians. The testimony that Mr. Trimble just presented is essentially the consensus and unified expression of the United Southeastern Tribe leadership, and the tribal administration, who are involved in the current food stamp program.

I am here to support and endorse that position in this respect: that we feel that the tribes in the United Southeastern Tribes Organization does have the administrative capability to administer, control, and implement the food stamp program to its service recipients.

For many years, the Bureau of Indian Affairs has administered area level programs for the tribes in the Southeast. In accordance with President Nixon's July 8, 1970 message to Congress, opening avenues of additional opportunities for Indians to be involved in a program of self-determination; the United Southeastern Tribes took advantage of that, and is currently doing the area administrative services to the six tribes in the Southeast.

We are currently contracting many of the services previously provided by the Bureau of Indian Affairs under the Buy-Indian Act contractural arrangement. We are contracting many of the health services on the area level to the tribes. We are exploring additional ways of gaining control of the fiscal management to our Indian health service hospitals in Cherokee, N.C., and Philadelphia, Miss., with the Choctaws.

This has reflected in the need at the tribal level for tribal administration to also administer programs on a contractural arrangement with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the Indian Health Services. The success of this contractural arrangement has been based on several things: number one; it is in accordance with self-determination, that Indian people themselves do have the potential and skill to administer their own programs as versus the long-standing paternalistic attitude of the Federal Government.

There are several detriments to that. One is that most Indian reservations are isolated, have had no practical experience at all in working relationships with surrounding agencies, institutions, and Government because of this long-standing paternalistic relationship. With the new tribal administration endeavor of utilizing its own. expertise, we have been able to negotiate with local governments, local institutions, and agencies to provide the kind of resources to the reservations; and in that kind of context, and in that kind of prospective, we feel very strongly that we can properly and effectively administer food stamp programs.

As an example of the kind of tribal administration and expertise that I am talking about; the Seminole Tribe of Florida, effectively and very profitably administers and implements for profit, one of the largest herds of beef cattle in Florida. And they are now developing innovative ways to open additional markets for food.

The Seneca Nation in New York has had the type of tribal administration to negotiate an approximate $5 million land claim with the Federal Government. They are now developing a very sophisticated

type of plan to invest in education and economic development for the Seneca Nation of New York.

The Eastern Bank of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina have a very sophisticated government and tribal administration, which allows for controls of fisheries and wildlife. They also have their own commercial enterprises owned by the Cherokee people.

The Choctaw in Mississippi are in the process of beginning to negotiate with major industries to bring such industries to their reservation, and doing such things as market surveying, cost analysis, and developing all kinds of resources.

With that in mind, the United Eastern Tribes' office in Sarasota, of which I am the principal administrator, is in a position to provide training and technical assistance, which we are doing for tribal administration, and we are building up manpower and working in that area and assisting the tribes in identifying local resources in education, in college accredited programs, and management and administration in all other kinds of human services that are needed for the development of Indian communities.

In conclusion, I would like to say that a majority of the tribes are in favor of an amendment to the extent that they will be in control administratively of their food stamp program, and that 100 percent of administration costs be allowed to tribal administration for the implementation of the food stamp program.

However, secondly, I want to recommend that the tribes be allowed to have the option to resort back to the commodities type program if by some reason or chance it is continued, so that they, not only can continue the commodity program, but gain control of its administration also under the tribal administration.

And third, there needs to be a time to allow the tribes to convert from the present food stamp administration system by the State to tribal control and administration. That amount of time, as designated by Mr. Trimble, was for a specific length of time. We feel that the extent of time required and needed is different among the tribes. It may be 6 months for one tribe, or it may be 2 years for another tribe, but this is basically our position. And our position also is in accordance and concurrence with the testimony presented by Mr. Trimble and the National Congress of American Indians.

Senator HUDDLESTON. Some suggested that policy might conflict with the distributive policy of some sort. Does this occur, or are you suggesting that the administration of the tribes should be totally separated from the State operation of its program?

Mr. BEGAY. The possibility of moving from commodity to cash contributions, I think those programs will be additionally supported by the fact that tribal administration will be involved in the actual administration and control of those programs.

Senator HUDDLESTON. Plus the fact that if you substitute cash for commodities, the school systems are going to have difficulty taking that cash and translating it into an equal amount of commoditiesin both quantity, and quality-to provide as good a meal for the students as they are receiving under the commodity program?

Mr. BEGAY. I think it will be better under the tribal administration.

Senator HUDDLESTON. Thank you very much for your testimony today. Incidentally, do you have an estimate, or how many Indians are in your organization?

Mr. BEGAY. We have a total tribal enrollment of about 20.000. The largest tribe is the Eastern Band of Cherokees with 8,000.

Senator HUDDLESTON. Is that mostly in North Carolina?

Mr. BEGAY. Yes, in the southwestern part of North Carolina, the smoky mountains, and the Chitimacha in Louisiana with about 600 residents.

[The attachment to Mr. Begay's statement follows:]

A POSITION PAPER OF THE UNITED SOUTHERN TRIBES, INC. (USET), REGARDING THE SENATE BILL 2871 ADDRESSING ITSELF TO AMENDMENTS TO PUBLIC LAW 93-86 CONCERNING FOOD STAMP PROGRAM AS IT MAY AFFECT OUR INDIAN TRIBES The USET is a non-profit corporation consisting of an association of Federally recognized Indian tribes in the Southeast and East with executive offices in Sarasota, Florida, and serving the following tribes:

Seminole Tribe of Florida

Miccosukee Tribe of Florida

Eastern Bank of Cherokee Indians
Mississippi Bank of Choctaws
Seneca Nation of New York

Chitimacha Tribe of Louisiana

USET has been continuously involved in supportive efforts on behalf of its membership tribes in all areas of endeavor. Most recently, USET has supported the efforts of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) in conducting meetings whereby Indian tribes have had the opportunity to express their various concerns regarding food stamp legislation. Additionally, USET is a designated regional area member of NCAI.

USET tribal leadership and key USET Administrators have been involved with NCAI in a process of establishing a broad consensus of nationwide tribal positions on the food stamp legislation. We feel that the position paper and testimony presented today by Mr. Charles Trimble, Executive Director, NCAI, to be essentially the position of USET and its membership tribes.

We concur in that respect, that there is an imposition on the part of state jurisdiction on Federally recognized Indian reservations, that there is a tremendous disadvantage to Indian individuals in securing food stamp services as administered by the state; that the states have an inability to effectively conduct community outreach in orientation and making food stamp services more conveniently accessible to Indian people due to a lack of experience on the part of the state in working with Indian communities and a total lack of understanding Indian lifestyle, cultural and traditional values; and that there may be in some instances an outright discrimination against Indian people due to misconceptions and racist attitudes.

Some of the problems encountered by tribal administration in administering any type of service program on our reservations are as follows:

I. In most cases, USET tribal communities do not consist of one concentrated group of families and establishments. For example, on the Seminole Reservation in Southern Florida there are three separate tracts of land which make up the reservation. The distance between the Hollywood and Brighton tracts is approximately 120 miles and situated diagonally between these two communities is the Big Cypress community which is approximately 65 miles from Hollywood and 80 miles from Brighton.

Although a majority of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians live on one tract of land, their community is vast with outlying subcommunities at a distance of up to 70 miles from the tribal headquarters. Additionally, access to outlying communities on the reservation must be transversed through mountainous roads which are sometimes inaccessible during certain periods of the

season.

The Choctaw in Central Mississippi consist of seven separate tracts of land some of which are up to 90 miles away from the tribal headquarters.

The Seneca Nation, near Buffalo, New York, consists of two separate tracts of land approximately 50 miles apart.

Although the Miccosukee Reservation in southern Florida is small in comparison to the other USET reservations, not all of the prospective service recipients live on the reservation. Many families still reside in the deep confines of the Everglades National Park. Access to these families is very difficult and sometimes almost inaccessible.

II. All of the USET tribal communities have their own individual and unique cultural values and lifestyles. Many of the tribal members, including youth still speak the native language. Although on some reservations the native language is used to such an extent, that the English language could be considered the second language; there is a great majority of the people who do not speak the English language. It should be noted that a majority of the eligible recipients of the food stamp program may not be able to speak, read nor write the English language.

III. In the past, Indian communities and individuals displayed a reluctance and a lack of aggressiveness in manifesting their rights to services from institutions and agencies surrounding the reservations. This is due to a longstanding relationship of alienation between the isolated reservations and the surrounding communities which have been fostered by federal paternalism. It is imperative that Indian communities be given every opportunity to develop their own resources and potential in education and training to overcome this particular kind of problem which we feel can be solved initially and in part in a sovereign manner by Indian people themselves.

In accordance with President Nixon's Self-Determination Message to Congress of July 8, 1970, the USET tribes have exerted themselves in every way to implement the full impact of this proclamation. In this respect we feel that tribal administration and government has the capabilities to administer a vast variety of service-oriented programs including the food stamp program as proposed herein. This is indicated by the fact that tribal administration under the authority of tribal government has proceeded to contract a great majority of services previously administered by the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Indian Health Service. Due to the ability of tribal administration to utilize all aspect of inherent expertise and off-reservation resources these contractual arrangements have been successful.

Every aspect of tribal administration takes into serious consideration the total needs of the community and validation and approval of such programs by community input through government and program involvement.

One of the purposes of USET is to provide training and technical assistance to tribal administration. This training is of a special nature, taking into consideration the unique cultural, economic and educational status of each reservation community. USET administers its own Indian Community Action Program which basically provides training and technical assistance to tribal administration in corporate administration and program management. This training and technical assistance is provided by Indian expertise on the staff at USET and administered locally in most cases in terms of in-service on-the-job training. Additionally, tribal administration has made significant progress in developing local education resources for college accredited training for its own personnel. The thrust in this effort has been to train and develop Indian manpower to be of service to their own tribe in the true spirit of Indian self-determination.

Specific instances of tribal administration capabilities and the development of tribal enterprise is the fact that the Seminole Tribe of Florida currently maintains with successful profit, one of the largest herds of cattle in the State of Florida. The sophistication of the Cherokee tribal administration is indicative of the fact that they administer total control of their own fisheries and wild service-oriented programs including the food stamp program as proposed herein. This is indicated by the fact that tribal administration under the authority of tribal government has proceeded to contract a great majority of services previously administered by the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Indian Health Service. Due to the ability of tribal administration to utilize all aspect of inherent expertise and off-reservation resources these contractural arrangements have been successful.