also, although I haven't read the full details. But the basic position of the tribe is that we would like to consider a continuing commodity program indefinitely because of the problems outlined, and if we can't, we do need changes that this bill would effect in the food stamp program if we are ever going to have an effective operation. At this point I don't think that more than 15 or 20 percent of the eligible people can possibly participate under the existing regulations.

Senator YOUNG. Under the bill that we passed I believe last year we do give the Department of Agriculture considerable latitude to do much of what you were talking about this morning. Have you made the request for changes?

Mr. ATHA. We have a file of course with the Department of Agriculture approximately 2 inches thick. The provision that of course we dealt most with was the provision that in cases like ours that exceptions could be made. Their dealing with that was most inadequate. It generally consisted of letters saying, your request and your material is under study, and we will respond to you at some point in the future. What they did do finally-and it was only after this 2871 was introduced, and I think that may have had some effect on their thinking-was to extend the community program on Papago for 6 months, until the end of this year. That still isn't enough time to set up a transportation and retail structure.

Senator YOUNG. Thank you very much.

The next witness is Melvin White Eagle, the chairman of the Tribal Council.

It is a very special privilege to introduce you, Melvin. You folks made me an honorary member of your tribe a few years ago, and I feel like I am one of you. I remember that ritual was first in English and then he did it over again and he said, now I am doing it in American. Maybe if those regulations were both in English and American they would be better understood.

STATEMENT OF MELVIN WHITE EAGLE, CHAIRMAN, STANDING ROCK SIOUX TRIBE, FORT YATES, N. DAK., AND CHAIRMAN, UNITED TRIBES OF NORTH DAKOTA

Mr. WHITE EAGLE. Thank you, Senator.

I will go into my own statement. I am Melvin White Eagle from Fort Yates, N. Dak. I am Chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe of North Dakota and South Dakota and also Chairman of United Tribes of North Dakota.

The Standing Rock Sioux Tribe supports both S. 2871 and Senator Young's bill, S. 3235. But we favor Senator Young's bill because it focuses on the Indian problem, whereas the main purpose of S. 2871 is to relieve all 50 States of a portion of their administrative costs of running the food stamp program.

Senator Young's bill has two main purposes. First, to give tribes the choice of administering the food stamp program themselves, or through contract with the Secretary of the Interior or through

contract with the State. Second, to continue the surplus commodity program until the food stamp program for Indians becomes effective, but not beyond June 30, 1976.

Why do we need this legislation? Mostly because of complaints both by reservation Indians and by some States where reservations are located.

Let me talk about my reservation. Standing Rock Reservation is in two States, about half in South Dakota and half in North Dakota. This makes for double trouble. Under present law, the two States would administer food stamps on our reservation. While South Dakota has not refused to administer the program, I believe it would be happy to be rid of the job. I know that North Dakota would be glad to be released from the responsibility. North Dakota has announced publicly that it cannot lawfully run the food stamp program on the four North Dakota reservations, because it has no jurisdiction over reservation Indians and has no way of making them respond to North Dakota law.

The Standing Rock Indians would prefer that the food stamp program be run through the tribe or by the tribe in cooperation with the local Indian agency. Other tribes may wish to work through the Secretary of the Interior. This would be of great help to the reservation Indians and would not cost the United States very much additional money.

Tribal administration would be a help because reservation Indians are not accustomed to dealing with State officials and often are embarrassed and unwilling to appear before them. Also, it is a hardship for Indians to get to town or city where the State locates its office-usually off the reservation. We have no public transportation system at Standing Rock. Our reservation is 150 miles north and south, and 75 miles east and west. It is not easy for poor Indians to get to the State offices. Many never make it and they and their families suffer, unnecessarily.

If Senator Young's bill became law, tribes could make the food stamp program work for reservation Indians. This is so because we know our own people, and would have no difficulty in handling the program. Right now, tribal and agency records show the name, address, age, education, and income of almost every Indian on the reservation. The agency social service personnel could determine eligibility with small expense to the United States and the States when performed by State personnel. Once eligibility is determined, the program would be administered through the tribe's credit office, or its finance office. We would set up convenient places on the reservation for Indians to get their stamps. Old people who do not speak English well would be taken care of. We would educate reservation Indians to the advantage of the program, teach them how to buy with stamps, and make things convenient for reservation Indians to participate in the program.

Now a word about surplus commodities. Our Indians depend on them. Until the food stamp program goes into operation and our people are educated to the use of food stamps, we must have the surplus commodities continued. At least 2 more years of surplus commodities are needed. Senator Young's bill provides this.

On behalf of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, I urge the committee to approve Senator Young's bill-S. 3235.

Senator YOUNG. Melvin, that is a very helpful statement. When the Indians need help now do they have to go all the way to the agency for food stamps?

Mr. WHITE EAGLE. No, we have a few workers that visit each of the districts on certain days. And they take a certain day of the week and visit with the people, so that they do not have to go to the agency. And this could be worked out.

Senator YOUNG. You would set up at different places in the future where they could go and get food stamps?

Mr. WHITE EAGLE. Yes, sir. This is being done now for other things than food stamps, but the food stamps could be added to the workload of these social workers.

Senator YOUNG. And you would like to continue both of them at least for awhile until one of them could be more workable, is that right?

Mr. WHITE EAGLE. Yes, sir.

Senator YOUNG. Is that all?

Mr. WHITE EAGLE. That is all I have, sir.

Senator YOUNG. Our next witness is Mr. Cato W. Valandra.

STATEMENT OF CATO W. VALANDRA, PLANNING DIRECTOR, ROSEBUD SIOUX TRIBE, ROSEBUD, S. DAK.

Mr. VALANDRA. My name is Cato W. Valandra. And I am the representative for the Rosebud Tribe, Rosebud, S. Dak.

I have been instructed by my tribe to speak in support of Senate bill 2871 and S. 3235, preferably 3235, the only difference being that there is a limitation set on when the community program will expire, and in the case of 3235 it would be in 1976.

It is the feeling of the tribes in the particular area I represent that the changeover from the surplus commodity program to the food stamp program is going to be too abrupt, and will not give them time enough to learn about the process of applying for food stamps, being certified for food stamps, and it appears to them to be just another situation in which the Federal Government or the State government is infringing on Indians again in the State.

I have brought along with me a map of Rosebud to show areawide what effects it would have on Indian people to have to travel great distances to obtain food stamps. This particular map herehere are the boundaries of our Reservation. And the red shows where the existing towns are, where foodstores are located.

Let's take the county of Todd. Here is where the food stamps are sold once every 2 weeks for 2 hours. In other words, if you are an Indian man living over in the southwest part of the reservation you have to travel to Mission, S. Dak., to the county welfare department, to obtain food stamps. So you have got a long way to go, plus the fact if you are not there at that 2-hour period when they are open you are out of luck.

Senator YOUNG. And the roads aren't always open in the winter. Mr. VALANDRA. That is right. Transportation is a problem, roads are a problem, and the weather is a problem.

And we think administration of the food stamp program should be by the tribe, with the tribe, instead of an office having an office open 2 hours 1 day every 2 weeks, would be able to circuit ride. or have social welfare people in those various communities on a certain day at a certain time to sell these food stamps to the people who are unable and don't have the wherewithall to hire a car to go buy their food stamps, they would be available to them in their own local communities.

Senator YOUNG. How many people do you have on the reservation? Mr. VALANDRA. Our Indian population here is around 7,800.

Senator YOUNG. How many Indians do you have altogether in South Dakota?

Mr. VALANDRA. About 45,000.

Senator YOUNG. How many do we have in North Dakota?
Mr. WHITE EAGLE. Approximately 20,000.

Senator YOUNG. Does that complete your statement?

Mr. VALANDRA. No. I have a few other things I have brought along. For instance, the application by the welfare department in the State of South Dakota determining the eligibility for food stamps. You almost have to be a lawyer to figure this form out.

Second, once you get the form filled out, the determination of eligibility is made by the State welfare department.

In the case where you fail to buy your food stamps within the 2hour period set by the welfare department, you have to go through this whole process again in order to be certified for the next goaround.

Now, the State of South Dakota says this in a report, that the officials in South Dakota have told tribal leaders that they lack such certification workers and that people who go out and certify the eligibility for food stamps-to handle the large number of Indians who will become eligible when the switchover to food stamps takes place. And I would think a lot of Indian people would not receive food stamps if the changeover is abrupt, let's say on July 1, 1974, you have got to go to food stamps. A lot of them wouldn't be able to fill forms out, and the State would not have enough people to take care of all the Indian people who would become eligible to receive those stamps, but would not take advantage of it because they have a long distance to travel, and there are the road conditions, and weather, and always talking to a white social worker and trying to fill out one of these certification applications for food stamps.

And so first of all, I think tribes should administer food stamps, whether they are in agreement with the State of South Dakota or North Dakota or whatever it might be, or the Department of Interior, the Bureau of Indian Affairs. But I think in order for Indian people to utilize food stamps and take advantage of a Federal program which is nationwide, that it is essential that the administration of the program is given to the tribes so that they can take care of their own people.

And thank you for giving us the opportunity to speak.

Senator YOUNG. I notice all the witnesses feel very strongly that their tribes have at least more to do with the handling of the program.

Mr. VALANDRA. The same as they do with the surplus commodity program.

Senator YOUNG. Thank you for your testimony.

I don't know which bill will be reported out, probably a combination of the two, or perhaps a new bill, a committee bill. But anyway, I think the committee will be impressed with your testimony. It will be considered when the full committee meets to report out the bill, whichever bill or combination it turns out to be. Mr. Glenn.

STATEMENT OF GILBERT T. GLENN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAM, CROW TRIBE OF MONTANA, CROW AGENCY, MONT.

Mr. GLENN. My name is Gilbert Glenn and I am the Deputy Director of the community action program for the Crow Tribe of Indians of Montana.

I brought along a survey that we have had our adult education. program put together for us. Our Tribe has quarterly councils, and our next quarterly council is in April, at which time we are going to submit a resolution on food stamps to the council. In the meantime they sent me to testify before this committee.

On the Crow Reservation we have great distances involved to get to the stores, et cetera. For this reason, and because of the property on the reservation, a concern in the Crow tribe is to have tribal administration of a food stamp program. We have individual tribal ownership of land in our tribe. And an Indian person goes in to the State operated food stamp people and they say, how many acres of land have you got? And the Indian says, 100 acres. They immediately say, well, that is worth a $100 an acre, so you are worth $10,000. So that is end of his asking for food stamps. This value is not a true reflection of how much money the Indian receives for this land that he leases. He might get 35 cents an acre is all. According to the statistics in the community action program, about 85 percent of Indian tribes should be eligible for food stamps, whereas the statistics of the States have are reversed, based on these land value figures.

And then when we go to the county the county says, you are on the reservation, so your tribe should handle it. At any rate, it is just a problem of not being able to communicate with the county

in Montana.

So what we are asking is, if possible, that the tribe, since it is better equipped and more capable to administer a food stamp program, that the commodities program be continued for a year because it would take us at least that long to set up a food stamp program. We have emergency food program in our community action program that could be changed over to a food stamp program and take the responsibility of food stamps, if we were given a proper amount of time to set up the administration.

Senator YOUNG. Does that conclude your statement?

Mr. GLENN. Yes. I think the main thing is that we are interested in having the administration of the food stamp program within the tribe.