Suppose we have Bruce speak first. We are going to try to hold you to 5 minutes each. That is not fixed, but we want to try to hear everybody. Senator Pell suggests before we start that we ask you a few preliminary questions, each one of you. How old are you?

STATEMENT OF BRUCE DANIELS AND ROLAND BRITT, BOTH OF PHILADELPHIA, PA., REPRESENTING CRIME PREVENTION ASSOCIATION, BOYS CLUBS OF AMERICA, PHILADELPHIA; CYNTHIA BOSTON AND HAROLD PRESTON, BOTH OF ROXBURY, MASS., REPRESENTING BLUE HILLS CHRISTIAN CENTER, ROXBURY; A PANEL

Senator CLARK. Do all of you or does any one of you have jobs?
Mr. BRITT. I have a job.

Mr. DANIELS. I have a job.

Miss BOSTON. I have a job.

Senator CLARK. How far did each of you go in school?

Mr. BRITT. I just finished high school this year.

Mr. DANIELS. I am in the 12th grade now.

Miss BOSTON. I went as far as my senior year.

Senator CLARK. Thank you.

Mr. DANIELS. Senator Clark, Senator Kennedy, Senator Pell, we are here from Philadelphia, a delegation from the Crime Prevention Association of Philadelphia.

Senator CLARK. What part of town do you live in?

Mr. DANIELS. Mantua area, Philadelphia. I am with the delegation from the Crime Prevention Association for Youth. This is a private agency which serves 25,000 young people through area youth street gang workers, boys' and girls' clubs, community centers, recreation programs, in cooperation with the churches and the board of education.

I came to the Mantua area in 1959, when I was 11 years old. It was a choice to either join the boys' club or just plain run the streets, so I ran the streets.

Like it usually happens when you run the streets, you get into trouble. I was in and out of trouble of number of times. I was sent to Pennypacker House for a while. You know, it was getting steadily worse. It seems like once you get in, there is no getting out if you do not have somebody to help you.

Take this morning, just somebody to say you're wrong and that is all-it takes more than that. Once your mind is made up, I'm not going to abide by these rules because it is not putting any money in my pocket, so I'm going to go and take whatever I can, whenever I caň get it cheapest as I turned out I finally struck right by thinking, you can't always take things. Sometimes you have to ask for them. If what you ask for is really not asking too much, there is no particular reason why you should not be able to get it.

Philadelphia needs a program of juvenile delinquency prevention. The agency from which we are delegates has a program which has been highly successful, but it needs to be supported and expanded. There is a need for rehabilitation for both youths that have been in trouble and youths with problems before they get too deep in the

street.

The administration's bill has some much-needed parts, but for Philadelphia, the most important part is poverty planning, because we have no program under the present bill. Planning needs to be done, and it will take money.

Senator CLARK. Is the community action program not doing any planning in Philadelphia?

Mr. DANIELS. No, that is not too involved with crime prevention. Probably the most important problem of youth, they want to be involved in this planning. They do not just want somebody from, say, Oklahoma to come in here and say, "Well, this is your neighborhood and you have to do right because you have to live here, and I don't care if you don't."

Senator CLARK. Where did your family come from before they came to Mantua?

Mr. DANIELS. North Philadelphia.

We want the neighborhood people to help. Right now, I am at the age where I don't need anybody to tell me the difference between right and wrong. I have learned myself. But I can tell my younger brothers what is happening and the other neighborhood boys I see going wrong. When a boy is about 13 or 14, as far as they're concerned, everybody from Washington is an evil person, because they are taking their money in so-called taxes and all this and not giving it back.

Senator CLARK. In other words, you think these programs should be administered at the local level?

Mr. DANIELS. At the local level, yes.

Senator CLARK. With very great participation from the youths in the area?

Mr. DANIELS. Very definitely. As far as that's concerned, they need more neighborhood people working in the neighborhood. It's nice to see people from outside the neighborhood feel as though they want to help, they get involved.

Senator CLARK. You think you can get people in the neighborhood who will do the work and are qualified to do it?

Mr. DANIELS. Yes.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

Now, let's hear from Roland.

Mr. BRITT. I am a delegate from the Crime Prevention Association. I am here for this conference. I have worked with crime prevention for about 3 years now.

Senator CLARK. What part of Philadelphia do you come from?

Mr. BRITT. West Philadelphia.

Senator CLARK. Both of you boys are from West Philadelphia?
Mr. BRITT. Yes.

Senator CLARK. Are you from Mantua also?

Mr. BRITT. Yes.

I have worked with crime prevention for about 3 years. I have just finished high school this year, and I am going on in school. Right now,

more help is needed with this, let's say, crime prevention itself, and the JD bill. We find that people help. For example, there is a young man I know-well, before his junior high school year, he was a troublemaker, in and out of jail, he had a record.

People thought there was no hope for him. So with a little guidance from neighborhood youth workers and other officials from Crime Prevention, this young man, they steered him on the right track. Now he is a freshman at Maryland State.

But more help is needed, because if this program was larger, we could use more youths in certain areas at one time. They should all be working steady, there should be more youths.

Senator CLARK. How about this bill? Would you prefer the House bill or the administration bill?

Mr. BRITT. The administration bill.

Senator CLARK. Would you make any changes in the administration bill?

Mr. BRITT. From what I have read, it sounds pretty stable, so I don't think so.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

Now, let us hear from Cynthia Boston.
Miss BOSTON. I am from Roxburg, Mass.

Senator CLARK. You did not go to Roxbury Latin, did you?
Miss BOSTON. No.

The organization I represent for all the youth in Roxbury is Blue Hills Christian Center. We have a number of youth programs working with juvenile delinquents, potential juvenile delinquents, dropouts, possible drug addicts or alcoholics. We are funded by OEO, which is why I am in support of the administration bill, since the bill will cut off the funds from OEO and we'll have nothing.

Senator CLARK. You mean the House bill?

Miss BOSTON. Yes. Also, I understand the House bill will be sent to the State agencies; for instance, in Roxbury, ABCD, which will never reach the ghettos.

Senator CLARK. Do you think it has to be straight from the Federal Government to the local community without going through the State? Miss BOSTON. Would you repeat that?

Senator CLARK. Do you think these funds should go right from the Federal Government to the local community and bypass the State, or do you think that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts should get the money from the Federal Government and then dish it out to the local communities? Or don't you have any view about that?

Miss BOSTON. I think it should go straight to the local communities. the nonprofit organizations. As I said, ABCD is a State agency. Their money they receive now never gets to the ghettos, so I know it won't get there.

We need youth involvement very badly. We must have it. I would say if you don't have youth involvement, if the funds are cut off, we'll have the same problem we have been having-chaos, nationwide chaos. This is not a threat, but it will be our only alternative, I would

say.

Senator CLARK. Now, Cynthia, Bruce and Roland both testified that they thought there were plenty of people in the local communities

who would be willing to help with the program and who were qualified to do it. Is that also true in Roxbury?

Miss BOSTON. Yes, I would say it is true.

Senator CLARK. Our fourth witness-I don't mean to cut you off, Cynthia. Do you have something else you want to say?

Miss BOSTON. I would say we also need planning money for the youth programs we might want to start. The House bill does not recognize

this.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

Our fourth and added starter is Mr. Harold Preston of Boston. We will be happy to hear from you, Harold.

Mr. PRESTON. I am a delegate from Boston, representing the Blue Hills Christian Center.

Senator CLARK. We did ask the other witnesses, and Senator Kennedy reminds me we didn't ask you; how old are you?

Mr. PRESTON. I'm 16.

Senator CLARK. What part of Boston do you come from?
Mr. PRESTON. I come from Roxbury.

Senator CLARK. I imagine you are not quite married yet?
Mr. PRESTON. No.

Senator CLARK. What grade are you in?

Mr. PRESTON. I am in the 11th grade.

Senator CLARK. What school?

Mr. PRESTON. Dorchester High.

Senator CLARK. Thank you.

Mr. PRESTON. As I was saying, I am a delegate from Roxbury, representing the Blue Hills Christian Center. These programs and things we talk about need support, because if you don't, like he said, the same problem, youth like myself running the streets, or you have things like riots and ladies and things getting pocketbooks snatched, cars being stolen, because youths have nothing to do. So if you support the programs, you find that you have something to do and they keep their minds off these things; give them jobs and training for jobs.

As far as things like dropouts out of school, well, one of the reasons is the education in some of the schools isn't appropriate. Like my school, there are a lot of books that are outdated, they are not up to date. So what they are doing is they are reading the same thing over and over and over again and not learning from it.

Senator CLARK. What is your opinion as to how good the teachers are in your school? I promise not to tell on you.

Mr. PRESTON. Well, it is about, I would say, fair but it should be better. The way the teachers are nowadays, they have a they-don'tcare attitude in the schools. If the student does something wrong, instead of trying to help him and better him, they just say, "Well, I don't have to help you at all; let you go ahead and do wrong."

Senator CLARK. Let me ask you this. In your school, just for a guess, what is the percentage of white students compared to Negro students? Mr. PRESTON. It is about half and half.

Senator CLARK. How about the teachers?
Mr. PRESTON. A good 75 percent are white.
Senator CLARK. Thank you. Go ahead.

Mr. PRESTON. But what happens is the teachers have this theyjust-don't-care attitude; OK, you want to do wrong, you go ahead. So

a student gets a feeling to where he can't be helped, so he tries to help himself, so he figures the best thing to do is drop out of school. If he drops out of school, he has no job, no money, so then he starts to run the streets. So a lot come into these programs like ABCD and things like that, wanting to be helped.

Now the problem is that they're getting the help, but not enough of it. Now they just want to cut the thing off completely.

Senator CLARK. I would like to ask the other three witnesses to give me an appraisal of how good the schools are in their neighborhoods. Are they doing a good job? Are the teachers good? Do you think a lot of this problem is the school's fault, or do you think the schools are doing a pretty good job?

Cynthia, how about you?

Miss BOSTON. As much as I know of the public school system--I am Catholic and I went to parochial school all my life. What I can see to compare the two, there is no comparison. The public school system is very poor. They have, as I said, no interest in the student whatsoever. I don't think they show any interest. They're only after their money, nothing more.

Senator CLARK. How about the parochial school; is that better? Miss BOSTON. Yes. I would say very much better.

Senator CLARK. The parochial school you went to, what percentage of the children there were white, what percentage Negro, for a guess? Miss BOSTON. I would say, for a guess, we had almost 90 percent black in our school.

Senator CLARK. Roland, how about the situation in your area?

Mr. BRITT. In Philly, the school which I attended was adequate. The teacher was fine. I was majoring in art and I am now going to commercial art school. But the teachers I had seemed to know what they were talking about, and they were always out helping the students, having conferences after class. I would think they were good.

Senator CLARK. Would you agree with that, Bruce?

Mr. DANIELS. Not entirely.

Senator CLARK. What do you think?

Mr. DANIELS. Some of the teachers are really interested in what they're doing. They're teaching because they want to be there, regardless of the money. Other teachers are only there to holler every year they want a pay raise, they want more money, they want shorter hours. They really don't care, some of them. But there are enough teachers there who do want to teach, they are really interested in what the student are doing.

Senator CLARK. Out in Mantua, what is the percentage of Negroes as opposed to whites in schools you went to?

Mr. DANIELS. Elementary schools was just about 100 percent black. In West Philadelphia High School, where I attended, it is just about 98 percent black.

Senator CLARK. Is that your experience, too?

Mr. BRITT. Yes, about the same.

Senator CLARK. How about the teachers? For a guess, about what percentage of them were Negro?

Mr. BRITT. In high school, a little more than-about 60 percent were white.

Senator CLARK. And in the elementary schools?