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doubt whether you would want to keep him in a vital position in the field where other men's lives depend on his decisions and his actions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Symington?

Mr. SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

General Taber, just to get straight in my mind, your authority as Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for Manpower, does that give you the overview of the drug problems throughout the services?

General TABER. It gives me, among my other duties, an overview of the drug programs of the type we have been discussing here as it involves the testing and treatment.

Mr. SYMINGTON. And the programs, of course, are related to the problems?

General TABER. Right.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Now, how many suspected addicts do you think were released before your amnesty program was announced and are back in society today?

General TABER. We simply do not have figures on that.

Mr. SYMINGTON. I have spoken with young veterans who claimed they received bad conduct discharges, or friends of theirs did, largely owing to problems that emanated from drug abuse. It would seem that that would appear in their records. Couldn't those records be searched and couldn't the country be notified where these people are, how many there are and

General TABER. If it is a bad conduct discharge or dishonorable discharge, the chances are that there was much more involved than just the drug issue.

Mr. SYMINGTON. But it is conceivable that the drug picture would appear in the record, wouldn't it?

General TABER. It is conceivable it would appear in the backup.

Mr. SYMINGTON. It might have been missed. I would suggest that a lot of this be done, because a lot of fellows are wandering around and can't get in the VA because of these discharges.

General TABER. I think if you study the proposal by the President this will be done.

Mr. SYMINGTON. I understand that. But we must change the policy in dealing with them. Do you have currently the statutory authority you need to implement the Defense Department program?

General TABER. We need more and we need what it outlined in the proposal. Certainly, we can get underway with our program, and we are right now under present statutory authority. But there are things we need.

Mr. SYMINGTON. I had another question back down the line concerning the urinalyses. That is only effective if the drug has been taken within how long?

General HAYES. About 72 hours.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Now, these urinalyses, are they announced in advance so the men know when they are coming up? Is it possible to hold off for 3 or 4 days, and then show nothing?

General HAYES. Well, the present program is aimed at the people who are leaving the country, and it is well known to all that they will have a urinalysis before they leave the country. If an individual is truly addicted, he is going to go into withdrawal and that will be

detectable at the point of departure as a clinical finding manifested by the symptoms of withdrawal even if he tries to beat the urinalysis technique.

Now, the casual experimenter who is truly not physiologically addicted may well be able to stop, show no withdrawal, and go through with a negative urine; and as far as we are concerned, that is a plus, because he has been able to get himself clean and he probably will fall into the group I discussed with Dr. Carter who will not go back to using again.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Well, not being a medical man, I don't know how much of a plus that would be. I would want to know every man in my outfit who had experimented with drugs and see that he knew what resources were available when he got home to deal with the problem. General HAYES. You are dealing with the second phase of what we planned, and this is periodic unannounced checks while individuals are in the country at various times within the tour.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Dr. Carter referred to the rate of VD. We mentioned a rate of 343 per thousand. That was not disputed. Was that a rough estimate?

General HAYES. I haven't looked at the incidence figures recently, but it is not out of line. The point is that 343, if we accept that as a definite number who are being treated or have been treated, more correctly, then that is the goal, the treatment.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Would this be part of the "situation status" that you think exists there that would cause men to alleviate problems through taking drugs, or isn't that serious?

General HAYES. I am not sure I understand the question as you said it.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Do you think there is any connection between the health problems created by venereal disease and drug taking, or are there any other connections that you have noticed or would anticipate? General HAYES. Well, venereal disease has always been a problem for armies. The drug problem is a new one.

Mr. SYMINGTON. If you have anything to add to that response, perhaps in the way of describing the serviceman's life and the possible things that result in the situation which you mentioned, I would like to know what they are, if you would like to submit something in writing; what is it about the situation in Vietnam; what are all the elements of the situation that make a man turn to drugs and encourage him to do it.

I wouldn't expect you to reply to that now. Think about it. I would prefer if you didn't answer now actually, because time is so short and we have been thinking only of Vietnam.

(The following information was received for the record :)

REASONS FOR TURNING TO DRUGS IN VIETNAM

The reasons why an individual turns to drugs may be classed into three categories:

1. Emotional stress on the individual.

2. Availability of drugs.

3. Susceptible personality.

The stresses associated with duty in Vietnam included primarily physical

danger, boredom, peer pressure from other drug users, and maladjustment related to a foreign environment. Further it is clear that involvement in drug use by our servicemen has risen with the recent influx of readily available and cheap drugs.

Lastly, some individuals are more susceptible than others to drug use in Vietnam similar to that occurring here at home.

Mr. SYMINGTON. I have had reports that in Europe the young dependents of servicemen are approached occasionally by other servicemen and sold drugs of one kind or another. Is that phenomenon familiar?

General TABER. It is to me, Mr. Symington, because I came back in April after 15 months commanding a division in Europe, and the scene you describe does occur. For all of my time there, and before we got there, we were working hard to block this.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Does your treatment program cover dependents, or will it?

General TABER. On a voluntarily space-available basis, and we are giving considerable thought to this.

Mr. SYMINGTON. I just call attention to section 1077 of title X, Armed Forces, that the following medical care may be given. One is "diagnosis" and two is "treatment of acute medical and surgical condition." Would you consider drugs an acute medical condition for purposes of offering dependents space available?

General TABER. Technically, I will defer to General Hayes.

General HAYES. You will go about this in two phases. Detoxification is an acute situation. The next step would be referral for rehabilitation. We would do what we could up to a point, but then would have to rely on referral to another agency for the long-term rehabilitation. We are going to have to do that for our active duty people in many

areas.

Mr. SYMINGTON. You don't need further statutory authority for that?

General TABER. NO.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Do you know how widespread the problem is in Europe among the bases there and members of the Armed Forces and dependents?

General TABER. The dope problem?

Mr. SYMINGTON. Yes.

General TABER. In my division where we did considerable work in surveys and that type of thing and had the first amnesty program in Europe, we had about 46 to 56 percent, depending on how you counted it, people who used drugs or had used drugs.

Mr. SYMINGTON. This is at what period?

General TABER. Up until the time I left there, the fifth of April of this year. We had about 13 percent, we estimated, to 16 percent of my troops that were what we called heavy users, and we arbitrarily said three times or more a week was "heavy" for our purposes.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Just for comparison purposes, what is the VD rate there?

General TABER. I should know, but I can't tell you offhand.

Mr. SYMINGTON. I would like to have that to see how it compares with the other one.

(The following information was received for the record:)

VD RATE PER THOUSAND-U.S. TROOPS IN EUROPE

In Europe, the rate for 1970 was 17.3 per thousand per year for VD.

General TABER. I also would like to add, Mr. Symington, that very, very few of our troops were on heroin or hard drugs. The problem in Europe is primarily a strong grade of hash, LSD, Darvon, or some of the "uppers" that can be bought out of the German pharmacies, and quite often some of these men mix these drugs with rather bad results.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Are our bases around the United States being carefully surveyed for the problem?

General TABER. For the total program, and we have only chipped away at it this morning. We have talked about the men leaving Vietnam, and Dr. Hayes has talked about the periodic checks throughout Vietnam. But we are going to do more than that; we are going to attempt to test each man at least 60 days before he leaves Vietnam. We will test those areas or units that have heavy drug incidents, and we are starting to move on a worldwide program. But, of course, this depends on equipment and personnel.

The Air Force, for example, is starting this Friday, I am told, with a program at one base in the United States. Eventually, we will move to Europe and throughout the CONUS, so this will be worldwide.

Mr. SYMINGTON. General, are you familiar with the bill before us that the administration proposed, H.R. 9264, which creates a special action office for drug abuse prevention?

General TABER. I am familiar with that.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Was the Defense Department consulted in the formulation of that bill?

General TABER. I am certain they were, and I am not prepared to speak or comment for the Defense Department now on the bill.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Could I ask who would have been consulted in the Defense Department? Who would have taken part on behalf of the Defense Department in consultations leading up to the preparation of this bill? Would that be the General Counsel, do you think?

General TABER. Several staff agencies, including the General Counsel. Mr. SYMINGTON. But he would not have discussed the matter with your special assistant for drugs.

General TABER. Yes.

Mr. SYMINGTON. He would have?

General TABER. Yes.

Mr. SYMINGTON. But that man reports to you. Has he told you anything about that?

General TABER. As far as my particular job in the Pentagon goes, we have no objection to the legislation.

Mr. SYMINGTON. You are not covered by it, are you?
General TABER. No; not as it affects budgets.

Mr. SYMINGTON. Would you like to be?

General TABER. I think the arrangement-and I am speaking personally now-is perfectly adequate for us to accomplish our mission. Mr. SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I will conclude, but I notice that it carefully excludes the Defense Department and actually de facto excludes also the Justice Department. It makes an effort explicitly to divide law enforcement from treatment, and earlier in your testimony

General Taber, you pointed out you are really addressed to treatment and not law enforcement.

Yet, I think the difficulty you exhibited in replying to certain questions concerning international law enforcement shows how important it is and will continue to be to marry the efforts of law enforcement with treatment, because they are intertwined and cannot be artifically separated in that way.

General TABER. I don't want to leave the impression that there are not people working in the Department of Defense working on the law enforcement aspect. As you realize, we have been working hard on this particular program for several weeks.

Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Schmitz?

Mr. SCHMITZ. General Taber, you mentioned that you need more legislation to carry out your program, and yet you have enough statutory backup to carry out that policy you are going to unveil today, you said, within 24 hours. Is that policy that you are going to come out with today a policy that no one will be discharged from the armed services for dope use alone? Is that the policy?

General TABER. If I understand your question correctly, Mr. Schmitz, the policy is that punitive or administrative action with a discharge less than under honorable conditions will not be taken solely because of the information learned on the urinalysis or a man's voluntarily coming in to what you would probably call an amnesty program.

Mr. SCHMITZ. What if his nonvoluntary annual physical shows up he is on dope and he didn't voluntarily come in? Can you give him an administrative discharge under the policy you are talking about today? General TABER. An enlisted man?

Mr. SCHMITZ. Yes.

General TABER. Certainly he could be given an administrative discharge. Your question is probably under what conditions.

Mr. SCHMITZ. My understanding is that you can give a man an administrative discharge at any time for no reason, can't you?

General TABER. Not for no reason, sir.

Mr. SCHMITZ. Well, in the Marine Corps they are cutting back and so they say we are cutting off some of the people.

General CARNEY. You are talking about short drops (early release)? Mr. SCHMITZ. You don't have to have a reason that they did something wrong. I am just wondering if your new policy will give somebody on dope rights, let us say a low GCT, that an enlisted man didn't have.

For example, you can drop somebody with a low GCT when they are dropping back in the Marine Corps. They are dropping some of their class fours?

General CARNEY. We are not aiming specifically at that population. We are cutting back and releasing certain people in order to get our strength down.

Mr. SCHMITZ. But you theoretically don't really need a reason for a person who had done something wrong to give him an administrative discharge?

Mr. KESTER. An administrative discharge is not a category, as such. The distinction is between administrative discharges and punitive discharges, which are given by courts-martial.

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