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AVAILABILITY OF ECONOMISTS

Mr. JONAS. Can you get nine professional people at a salary of around $14,500 each that will be worth anything to you, and where will you get them?

Mr. HELLER. Well, sir, we would of course have a range of salaries, going down from something in the $17,000 or $18,000 neighborhood, which is the top we are permitted to pay. We would hope to get some topnotch senior economists and some younger economists. Our source of supply is mainly in the universities but we also look to the field of business economists.

Mr. JONAS. You do not want trainees, you want experienced economists, do you not?

Mr. HELLER. Our most critical need is for several topnotch experienced economists in these fields, but we have to get a good product mix, so to speak, between the bright young people who are partially trained on the job and some of the seasoned people who can operate on their

own.

Mr. JONAS. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. THOMAS. I would like to welcome our distinguished colleague, Mr. Frank Bow.

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Bow, do you want to ask any questions?

Mr. Bow. No, Mr. Chairman. I believe Mr. Jonas has covered those I had in mind.

Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Jensen.

IMPORTANCE OF AGRICULTURE TO ECONOMY OF UNITED STATES

Mr. JENSEN. I do not want to belabor this matter, but there is one more thing I think I should mention, and that is that I have always felt, and for good reason, that the economy of our country is based to a large degree on the welfare of agriculture, and I will give you my reasons why.

Eighty percent of all raw products spring from the soil. About 15 percent is pumped or mined out of Mother Earth. The other 5 percent is fished out of our rivers and out of the sea. It is these raw products on which every person must be employed in some phase, from the production to the transportation to the manufacturing, processing, and to the marketing of those raw products.

Now, because we have such an abundance of raw products in America, we generally have pretty full employment. But there is one great reason why we have had some unemployment recently, and that is because of the fact that for many years past the farmer's dollar has been worth only 80 cents in purchasing power.

The records will show that our farmers buy 215 times more, dollarwise, of manufactured goods, on an average, year in and year out. when the dollar is worth 100 cents at the counter, and because of the fact that the farmer's dollar has been worth only about 80 cents in purchasing power, naturally he has not been the buyer of manufactured goods in the last few years that he would like to be and would be if his dollar was worth 100 cents in purchasing power.

Our hard industries have suffered, such as the implement factories, the tractor factories, the steel roofing factories, the woven wire factories, they have suffered a great loss of business because the farmer was not able to buy what he would like to buy, and when industry suffers, of course labor suffers and it is in these hard industries where we have unemployment.

Now, you hear a lot of talk about these subsidies to farmers. Well, actually the $7 billion-plus that we appropriate each year for agriculture, only about $2 billion of that should be charged to agriculture, because of the fact we charge all these school lunch programs to the farmer, we charge all this food and feed and fiber that we send abroad-a good share of it we give to the people of foreign countries and that should not be charged to the Department of Agriculture and the Public Law 480 money should not be charged to Agriculture, because that is foreign aid; it should be charged to the foreign aid

program.

So too many people, especially those in the large cities that do not understand that farming is a great gamble-it is the greatest gamble in the world. You plant the crop and you do not know if it will grow or not, and when it does come up it may be dried out, hailed out, or blown away; and when it comes to stock, you have to be almost a professional veterinarian any more to raise stock because of all the diseases and pests, infections, that get into the stock. My, it is a hazardous business.

But the raw products that the farmer raises and that are pumped out of the ground and fished out of the sea are the bases upon which we must depend. To the rulers and leaders of many foreign countries I have said, "Don't depend on this foreign aid more than 1 year at a time, because if the good Lord finally decides He will not give us enough sunshine and rain in America and we have a crop failure, we will have to stop foreign aid; there will be no money with which we can help foreign countries; so please do not depend on foreign aid from now on; you will just have to take it a year at a time."

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That is why we cannot commit ourselves to a 5-year foreign aid program as the President is asking. For heaven's sake, how does he know, how does anyone know, only God knows whether we will continue to have bountiful crops or not, and if we commit ourselves and cannot live up to our commitments, that is when we will really lose friends around the world. Let us not depend on the good Lord being so kind to us as he has been for many, many years. The blessings we have, the abundance of food and fibers with which we can help the hungry and sick and less fortunate in the world, that is all right, but we cannot commit ourselves more than one year at a time. Please bear that in mind, gentlemen.

Mr. HELLER. Mr. Jensen, we certainly will keep in mind your observations on a number of subjects.

I might say, Mr. Chairman, in the comments on agriculture by the gentleman from Iowa I detect a kindred spirit with the gentleman from Minnesota, the Secretary of Agriculture.

Mr. JENSEN. I hope his program will do the job. I have supported him. I am not so partisan I cannot say this on the record. I am sure I am no different than a majority or a great number of American people. We just want to see to it as best we can that we carry on in

the American way under our great constitutional form of government
for the good of all the people, not only here but all over the world.
You will have to excuse me, gentlemen. I just wanted to say what
I have said.

Mr. THOMAS. It was very helpful. We are delighted to have your

comments.

Gentlemen, we thank you very much for the privilege and pleasure
of meeting all of you. We know you perform a very valuable and
useful function and we know you will do it the way it should be done.
Mr. JENSEN. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. THOMAS. The committee will meet in the morning at 10 o'clock.

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Mr. THOMAS. We have with us this morning the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. It is a pleasure to welcome you here today, gentlemen.

You are requesting a supplemental appropriation for "Salaries and expenses" in the amount of $190,000 as contained in House Document No. 210.

us?

GENERAL STATEMENT

Mr. Simkin, have you or any of your associates a statement for

Mr. SIMKIN. We have no prepared statement other than the statement which you have before you which covers the supplement rather adequately, we think.

As you gentlemen all know, we are the independent agency which has responsibility for mediation of labor disputes in all industries other railroads and airlines. This supplement is solely related to a new task which we have undertaken in connection with the President's Executive order on missile sites.

Under that Executive order, one of the main objectives is to settle disputes on the missile sites on a local basis.

There is a commission set up here in Washington, of which I happen to be vice chairman, to which disputes can be referred, but we are making every effort to settle the matters locally.

Mr. THOMAS. It seems you have done better than a fair job, too. Mr. SIMKIN. It has required additional assignments from our staff. We have a total of 30 out of approximately 200 mediators assigned to these missile sites. Two assignments we contemplate will be of a full-time character in the foreseeable future, at Canaveral and at Vandenberg. At the other 28 sites our mediators will give priority to the missile work but, in addition to that, will do cther work.

We anticipate and estimate, to the best of our ability, that this missile work will ake the equivalent of 16 full-time men.

In our regular budget and before the establishment of the commission we had been doing a more limited amount of work on the missile sites which we estimated at approximately the equivalent of four full-time men. We are therefore requesting in this supplement 13 mediator positions, 1 in the national office, 12 in the field. The national office position is a coordinator position, and then the equivalent of 12 full-time positions in the field, plus 3 secretarial. There are related costs in addition to salaries, transportation, and per diem, which will be increased somewhat in addition to the extra manning. We feel this is an extremely important project, and it is one which was added to our work after our regular budget was submitted. Mr. THOMAS. This was created by Executive order.

Mr. SIMKIN. That is correct.

Mr. THOMAS. You are seeking 14 new jobs at a cost of $132,000. The other objects are $58,000. The total request is $190,000. Is that correct?

Mr. SIMKIN. That is correct, sir.

NUMBER OF PERSONNEL

Mr. THOMAS. Throughout the program on a regular basis you require about 30 people. Is that correct?

Mr. SIMKIN. That is correct. We have 30 men assigned.

Mr. THOMAS. Their specific duties will be to work with the local organizations. They will be mediators in truth and in fact and they will work with the local organizations, labor and management, at the missile sites.

MISSILE SITES

How many missile sites are there?

Mr. SIMKIN. Thirty.

Mr. THOMAS. The list is in the record.

We shall insert in the record the list of missile sites.

(The list referred to follows:)

MISSILE SITES

Plattsburgh Missile Base, Plattsburgh, Edwards AFB, Muroc Desert, Calif. N.Y.

Patrick AFB. Cape Canaveral, Fla.
Ellsworth AFB, Rapid City, S. Dak.
Forbes AFB, Topeka, Kans.

Schilling AFB, Salina, Kans.

Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson, Ariz.
Warren AFB, Cheyenne, Wyo.
Glasgow AFB, Glasgow, Mont.
Larson AFB, Moses Lake, Wash.

Pacific Missile Range, Point Arguello,
Calif.

Fairchild AFB, Spokane, Wash.

Wallops Island Station, Wallops Island, Walker AFB, Roswell, N. Mex.

Lincoln AFB, Lincoln, Nebr.

Dyess AFB, Abilene, Tex.

Va.

Eglin AFB, Fla.

Altus AFB, Altus, Okla.

McConnell AFB, Wichita, Kans.
Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebr.

Little Rock AFB, Little Rock, Ark.
Holloman AFB, Alamogordo, N. Mex.
Mountain Home AFB, Mountain Home,

Lowry AFB, Denver, Colo.
Hill Field AFB, Ogden, Utah.
Malmstrom AFB, Great Falls, Mont.
Beale AFB, Sacramento, Calif.
Vandenberg AFB, Santa Barbara, Calif.
Sycamore Canyon Missile Site, San
Diego, Calif.

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