Mr. WACHTER. As I understand the agreement they would not be able to unless it was within the objectives of the Center program as it has now been developed. Mr. SAUND. Well, I understand one of the objectives of the program was to make it work in conjunction with the University of Hawaii. Did you say here that the scholarships and grants are $4 millionMr. WACHTER. $4,004,000. Mr. SAUND. How many grantees do you expect out of this? Mr. SAUND. Yes, with that sum of money. Mr. WACHTER. I can probably quote them to you, but I would like to refer to these notes to give you specific figures. For fiscal year 1961, which was for the last year actually, there was made available 99 scholarships and 5 grants for senior scholars. This was a program we undertook in February of this year, within the fiscal 1961 period. For fiscal year 1962, the year we are now in, there are 150 scholarships and 15 grants to senior scholars. This is the program we now have underway. Dr. SNYDER. This is in addition-I mean they are all here. Mr. WACHTER. Yes, the total of that, of course, would be 249 available of which we have 230 or 231 on the campus presently. Mr. SAUND. So it would cost about $4,000 a year per grantee, is that correct? Mr. WACHTER. No, sir; about $5,000 a year per grantee; about $10,000 for 2-year grants. Now these are programed actually-the initial ones-at $9,045 for the Asian and Pacific students and $8,620 for the American students. The differential is because of transportation and term of the scholarship. The second year, fiscal 1962, for the 150 scholarships, broken down as 117 Asian and Pacific students and 33 American students, these are programed at $9,595 for Asian and Pacific student scholarships and $8,620 for American student scholarships. These are for a 2-year period, however; consequently we might say that the average cost per year for the scholarship is between $4,500 for the Asian and Pacific student to $5,000 and for the American student, an average of $4,300 per year. Mr. SAUND. You answered my question. You say that the average cost would be $5,000 per annum for an Asiatic student? Mr. WACHTER. Right. Mr. SAUND. And then you have this $1,098,000 for operation. At that how much will it cost per grantee for the Asiatic student per year? Mr. WACHTER. I am sorry. I don't understand. Mr. SAUND. The operational cost is a million-so it will cost about $7,000 per grantee from the Asiatic countries? How much will it cost to bring one grantee over here per year, including the operational cost? Mr. WACHTER. Excuse me, Murray, let me make one additional comment, if I may, and try to answer the Congressman's question. In addition to the scholarships, of course, are grants to senior scholars, and in addition to the scholarship and grant program there are other programs that the Center is providing, which are attributable to this $1,098,000, so you cannot prorate equitably this million dollars plus against the scholarship and grant program. You have to separate out those things of a special project nature or are contributions to other programs. Chairman HAYS. Maybe it would clarify if you would tell us the $5,000, roughly, that you are contemplating-that is the cost of the student living here and being brought here; that doesn't include the cost of the professors and the staff; is that right? Mr. WACHTER. It does include an instructional cost. This will be covered in a little more detail a little later in terms of the value of this in the long-range program. However, in setting up a scholarship for a student, we have included transportation, housing, and other living requirements; allowances for books and other related materials; allowance for clothing replacement, cleaning, and normal expenses; and also an instructional cost. The instructional cost is a fee paid directly to the university to cover the instructional cost of that student. Chairman HAYS. But you are not including these 30 professors you say you hired with East-West Center funds. Mr. WACHTER. These are supported out of income received by the university as a result of the instructional fee paid to the university. Chairman HAYS. Let me ask you this-it may be a little bit out of the main stream-but are you contemplating hiring any professors out of money appropriated by the Congress to beef up the faculty here to make it possible for classes to be smaller and give special instruction, and so forth? Mr. WACHTER. There are other faculty positions carried under the operational cost of the Center for support in special areas. The instructional fee out of the scholarships has gone into general instructional support. Mr. SEELY-BROWN. Does the money you turn over to the university in tuition fees does that actually pay for the Mr. WACHTER. It does not. Mr. SEELY-BROWN. I didn't think it did. It never does in any college. Mr. WACHTER. This is a subject I am sure we would like to refer to later. Mr. SAUND. Doctor, I could make a statement in public and say it will cost the U.S. Government $5,000 to bring one of these students or grantees from an Asiatic country to this Center. Is that the permanent cost per year? Mr. WACHTER. You could say this is the present cost, but I would suggest you not consider saying it is the permanent cost because costs do increase and actually our instructional charge is probably quite inadequate. We would consider proposing that the scholarship be increased to provide a more adequate reimbursement to the university for the actual instructional cost. Mr. SAUND. Well, can I say this, that aside from the money appropriated for the construction of buildings and permanent structures, it will cost $5,000 per year for a student from an Asiatic country to stay here and that will include his transportation cost and everything? Mr. WACHTER. Yes. Mr. SAUND. And how much does it cost for the American student? Mr. WACHTER. $4,300. These figures are the current information, but these will change, to some extent, when the dormitory facilities are available and we will not have to house these students in facilities off the campus. Mr. SAUND. I still can't reconcile $4 million with 200 students. Mr. WACHTER. Well, I may Mr. SAUND. Can you give me some more figures? I want to be able to tell my people that all it will cost is $5,000 per student per annum. Mr. WACHTER. The present cost of the scholarship, not including a portion of the operational cost charged to this, per Asian or Pacific student is approximately $5,000, less than $5,000. Chairman HAYS. Do you have a breakdown of this $4 million? Mr. WACHTER. I do have and I will be glad to make it available for the record. (The information requested follows:) CONSTRUCTION Fiscal year 1961: Total cost of first stage of construction__ $8, 160, 075 Chairman HAYS. Well, I see it's 12:15 and as we are already late for the Governor's luncheon, we will adjourn this hearing. I have already checked to get permission of the witnesses to meet at 10 o'clock in the morning instead of 10:30. I will comment before we adjourn that Congressman Fulton, of Pennsylvania, has come into the room. He used to be a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. Mr. Fulton, it's nice to have you with us. Mrs. BOLTON. I think he should stand up. Chairman HAYS. We will adjourn until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. (The subcommittee thereupon adjourned at 12:15 p.m., until 10 a.m. tomorrow, December 14, 1961.) CENTER FOR CULTURAL AND TECHNICAL INTER CHANGE BETWEEN EAST AND WEST (East-West Center) THURSDAY, DECEMBER 14, 1961 SUBCOMMITTEE ON STATE DEPARTMENT ORGANIZATION AND FOREIGN OPERATIONS. The subcommittee met at 10 a.m. in the conference room of the board of regents, at the University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii, Hon. Wayne L. Hays (chairman) presiding. Chairman HAYS. The committee will come to order. This morning the first witness we have will be Murray Turnbull, the acting chancellor of the East-West Center, who will speak on two subjects: (1), The objectives, programs, organization, and progress of the Center, and (2), the problems and difficulties and efforts to solve them. STATEMENT OF MURRAY TURNBULL, ACTING CHANCELLOR, CENTER FOR CULTURAL AND TECHNICAL INTERCHANGE BETWEEN EAST AND WEST, UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII Mr. TURNBULL. Thank you Mr. Chairman. On the 25th of October, 1960, the university signed an agreement with the Department of State to establish and operate the Center, and on the 8th of November, 13 months ago, we received our first funds to operate this organization. I would like to point out that at that time we had in the university our first two students of the Center, who were brought here in anticipation of this program. Our staff consisted of one full-time person serving as interim director and a secretary and part-time student clerk. We now have 60 professional and 24 clerical and stenographic people on our staff. We have added 26 people to the university instructional staff to handle the additional burdens placed by the coming of these students. We have 198 Asian students from some 23 countries and areas in the Pacific and 32 students from the United States from 17 of the States. Our objective, as you are well aware, is to seek mutual understanding between these people from the various Asian countries and the United States. In carrying out this objective we have planned and developed and placed into effect a program which has three primary units. I would like to describe the nature of each of these programs and try to indicate to you how they are fitted together. I believe I might suggest this by indicating first the nature of the oranizational structure of the Center itself. The Center has as its principal administrative officer a chancellor, a position now filled by an acting chancellor, who is responsible under our agreement with the Department of State to the board of regents, but who reports to the board |