Mr. WACHTER. With respect then to the capital improvements, we have obligated the entire portion of the appropriation to the construction and completion of these units. This was in accordance with our plan and program and in accordance with the grant-in-aid document which made available this sum for this particular purpose. As you examine the documents, the grant-in-aid agreement, there is a complete brochure on the physical facilities incorporated as a part, as an exhibit, of the grant-in-aid agreement, and you will find that this is the first stage in the long-range development of the whole EastWest Center physical facilities. I would like also to say that this portion of the project was carefully studied and estimates made of the cost. The actual construction cost is within 212 percent of the estimates that we made for the development of this portion of the project. I am personally a little proud of this because these were prepared much in advance of the actual appropriation for the project and we have been able to follow through with the construction within the 212 percent that I mentioned. The second item is the scholarships and grants. This, of course, is the total sum to provide scholarships and grants from the beginning of the program for 1960-61, 1961-62, and for 1962-63. A major portion of this we have already obligated in actually having made grants to students, scholarships for students, and grants to senior scholars. The funds for the 1962-63 grants and scholarships, of course, have not been obligated and will not be committed until awards are made in September 1962. This covers in effect a portion of the 3-year program for scholarships and grants. I have a statement which will indicate how much is expended and how much is currently obligated and how much is unobligated as to the balance. The third category, the operational cost of the Center, $1,098,820, is the operational portion of the program and will carry the cost of the administration and project support cost for the Center through its initiation in October, October 25, 1960, through to June 30, 1962. We estimate we will require all of this money to meet our obligations for the past and the additional period just ahead of us. In this regard I have a fiscal report summary which shows the amount of the contract in those three categories, the expenditures up to the 30th of September 1961, the obligations we feel are in effect for the additional portion of the funds, the portion of the funds that will be available for scholarships and grants in 1962-63, and a small unobligated balance because of the fact that our current scholarship program of awards is not as great as the number provided for in the budget; however, we expect to make some additional awards between now and February.

Mr. SEELY-BROWN. Do you anticipate any additional capital expenditures; in the immediate future, the next fiscal year? Are you going to come to Congress and ask for more money for capital improvements?

Mr. WACHTER. This is a separate subject. I would be glad to answer your question. Yes, we have proposed to the State Department in our budget request that the program continue and that there will be additional capital improvements required to implement that program. I believe that will be discussed a little bit later with respect to the long-term plan of development of the East-West Center. Attached to this are some details as to how these moneys are being ex

pended. I would like to submit this for your information. This concludes my comments, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman HAYS. Thank you very much, Mr. Wachter. I asked most of the questions that occurred to me as you went along. Mrs. Bolton?

Mrs. BOLTON. I have nothing at this point.

Chairman HAYS. Mr. Saund?

Mr. SAUND. Doctor, let us get this in plain everday language. The title to all these constructions will rest permanently in the U.S. Government and do I understand that the University of Hawaii is making an outright grant of its valuable real estate for the construction of these buildings?

Mr. WACHTER. No, sir; the title to the buildings and the land on which they are located remain with the university under the terms of the grant-in-aid agreement, which includes the clause we discussed earlier relative to the termination of that agreement. The State of Hawaii has contributed the land upon which these buildings are located as part of this whole program, which has a considerable value, so in this respect there is a direct contribution by the State to implement this particular program.

Mr. SAUND. Well, I think you have made it plain the title of all these bits of real estate will permanently rest in the University of Hawaii.

Mr. WACHTER. That is correct.

Mr. SAUND. But the U.S. Government or the State Department will have use of these in full perpetuity if they use it for this particular objective, is that right?

Mr. WACHTER. That is correct.

Mrs. BOLTON. Does this mean that this Center will have to be under the regents and part of the university?

Mr. WACHTER. On the basis of the development thus far I would have to answer "Yes," that it was planned and developed as a Center very closely related, of necessity, to the University of Hawaii and, as such, located within the university framework in order to best undertake the objectives of the program.

Mrs. BOLTON. Does it make it inevitable or is there a possibility, if it became apparent it were wiser to make it autonomous entity, tied in with the university work on so on, as in many places?

Mr. WACHTER. I believe that problem could be solved. I believe, as Mr. Turnbull has indicated, steps have been taken toward making the Center in effect reasonably autonomous to give it the benefit of flexibility, still recognizing, however, that the core of the program is an educational one that can, at this stage of development at least, best be undertaken by a recognized university, university facilities and faculties.

Mr. SAUND. If the Department of State or the U.S. Congress decided to establish this as a separate entity, which it is not going to do, yet I have to ask these questions because we will be asked the same questions, will the Government of the United States have no title for this particular property to be used for such a purpose? Suppose Congress decided they wanted to establish the East-West Center as an entity apart from the University of Hawaii. What would be the position of the U.S. Government? They could not use these facilities.