many more areas from programs of the Library Services Act, and they state:

It is suggested when urban areas serve rural areas with active bookmobile service that they not be required to lose such benefits, since all our books and services are easily accessible to the rural areas.

In Massachusetts approximately 25 communities now receiving such service will become ineligible because of exceeding the popula tion limitation of 10,000 and so on.

There are quite a few States that present this problem as eliminating areas where they have already started the program.

In view of this do you think it would be wise for this subcommittee to consider freezing it at the 1950 census figure?

Mr. POWELL. It would be too bad to eliminate these towns from consideration. The intent of a new census, of course, is to bring us up to date as to what the population would be and we feel that it might be preferable to follow the latest information that is available rather than sticking to the 1950 census, but I do not think we have any fairly strong feelings either way on this. I think we would certainly be willing to be guided by the thoughts of those who testify here.

Mrs. GREEN. One of your strongest pleas in your statement is that if we have to abandon these projects and do not extend the service, we will lose the gains that we have made.

Mr. POWELL. Yes.

Mrs. GREEN. And that we will not be able to consolidate the gains from the program. Then how do you justify this with not much concern about really abandoning a lot of these projects if we change the figure?

Mr. POWELL. We are concerned, of course, about abandoning any of these. We wonder, however, whether we should not also be thinking about the new population figures and the new census and following it rather than the old. But I am not saying that we have very strong feelings one way or the other here.

Mrs. GREEN. Well, what in effect you are saying is that in a place where you have begun the program that has a population of under 10,000, this could easily be abandoned and a new program started somewhere else and that the local area would continue it; is that right?

Mr. POWELL. Well, we would hope that any we have to abandon would be continued with local support. I suppose if we had to make a choice between the two, in view of what we are trying to accomplish-whether to utilize the new census or to favor using the new census, I think, perhaps, we feel a little more strongly that the cities which have been benefited should not be dropped. I am more or less inclined personally to that point.

Mrs. GREEN. I think the gentleman from New Jersey might be interested in the situation in his State. There are 35 municipalities in the State which were under 10,000 population in 1950 and are now estimated at over 10,000. An estimated 446,306 people are now residing in these 35 areas. At present these benefits under the New Jersey program for the use of Federal aid after the 1960 census is promulgated they will not be eligible unless the population basis of the Li

brary Services Act is raised. It is the smaller municipalities in New Jersey that have use for public library demonstrations.

Mr. Chairman, I would ask unanimous consent that I might insert in the record at this point some of the statements from the States on the changes that they would be forced to undergo if the census figures of 1960 are used.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Without objection, immediately after the testimony of Mr. Powell, the materials that Mrs. Green has referred to will be made a part of the record.

Thank you very much, Mr. Powell. We appreciate your testimony and we will find it very helpful.

(The materials referred to by Representative Green follow:)

In a questionnaire sent to heads of all State library agencies the following question was asked:

"With the present population limitation of 10,000, what effect do you anticipate from the 1960 census figures on programs now underway?"

The responses from the States indicate the following:

Will effect 20 States or_-_

Will not effect 26 States or_.

No reply 4 States or..

Total (50 States)1--.

1 Excludes District of Columbia.

The specific comments are as follows:

Percent

40

52

8

100

Arizona.-Many of our programs would have to be abandoned if not now, in the next year or so.

Arkansas.-A rural State with few towns of more than 10,000 so that the 1960 census figures will have little effect if any on our projects contemplated after 1961.

California. The 1960 census will remove most of the currently eligible cities from that category.

Colorado.-Under the present population limitation of 10,000; 10 cities now eligible for receiving direct Library Services Act assistance, would become ineligible for help when the 1960 census becomes official.

Hawaii.-Probably very little, except that some areas now being assisted by Federal aid funds would have to be shifted to full State support.

Idaho.-Will effect about 40,000 persons in the State. If the limitation were raised to our category of 25,000, another 90,000 persons would be effected by the availability of Federal funds. We would expect the population totals anticipated in the coming census to remove about 20,000 persons from eligibility for assistance, without the hope that their increased population would result in increased library service.

Connecticut.-If the population figure remains at 10,000, there will be 25 towns now in the Federal plan which will no longer be eligible. If the popula tion figure is raised to 25,000, these 25 towns, plus 6 additional towns will be eligible for inclusion (total 31 towns). To leave the population limit at 10,000, would decrease the number of persons to benefit by 381,700. To raise the population figure to 25,000 would retain these 381,700 persons in the plan and benefit an additional 114,000 persons (a total of 495,700).

Delaware. We would abandon aid to two town libraries which will probably fall in the new urban category.

Florida. So many areas have grown so rapidly, the bookkeeping and the physical limitations of the plan becomes more involved. To date, we have not worked with a county where the larger public libraries remain outside the project operation. Therefore, it would be easier without the 10,000 limitation. Kentucky.-1960 census figures are due to alter the population picture in Kentucky considerably. Urban areas are increasing in population; rural areas are decreasing. Kentucky is going to have to deduct many more areas from benefits from the Library Services Act than formerly. It is suggested that when urban areas serve rural areas with active bookmobile service, that they not

be required to lose such benefits, since all their books and services are easily accessible to rural people.

Louisiana. The present population limitation of 10,000 would not affect the programs now underway. However, two parishes still unserved (Lincoln and St. Landry) with town of 10,000 would be affected in future programs. Maryland. The urban areas around Washington and Baltimore are expanding rapidly. Howard County will surely have more than 10,000 in urban area. Massachusetts.-Approximately 25 communities now receiving special service will become illegible because of exceeding the population limitation of 10,000. Michigan. With the present limitation of population, there are at least 14 places now classed rural, with less than 10,000 people which we would be unable to serve if we had to use 1960 census figures. There are about six others which will be too large. If the present population estimates are right, many of these places are in project areas. There are also three additional projected metropolitan areas in Michigan. These have a total population of about 400,000. We would, of course, be unable to serve these areas. We do presently have a project in one of them.

Minnesota. The 1960 census is expected seriously to effect some of the re gional library development now underway (and still in the process of firm establishment). If we are to build these systems soundly, we must build on the existing strength of the better established libraries. Some of the larger city libraries (in the over 10,000 bracket) are hesitant about joining the larger systems, since they know that it is impossible to keep their libraries from benefiting indirectly through participation in the system. Such benefit (even indirect) is prohibited by the Library Services Act. That word "indirectly" is our most serious handicap in the present bill.

After 1960, the city of Willmar, now headquarters for the developing MidMinnesota Regional Library will be over 10,000. The establishment of the region will still be in process, and we will therefore have a real problem in working with that community. This same factor will be reflected in our other regions if they should grow by the addition of new counties, since several communities in the Dakota-Scott region will have populations over 10,000 in the new

census.

It is my personal feeling that much of our difficulty with the population limitation could be eliminated by striking out "indirectly" in that paragraph. Because, if any large library becomes a regional headquarters (and this is the only sensible solution which avoids needless duplication of facilities), its patrons cannot possibly avoid being benefited indirectly by such participation without an even more senseless and needless duplication in internal operations. Do we tell the city man that he can't have any of the information in a reference book bought to answer questions for rural people.

Mississippi. Three towns in which the library commission is currently working will be over the 10,000 figure, we believe. However, since all of our activity is based on systems of libraries where municipalities extend their services to their trading and other adjoining areas, we do not anticipate any substantial change in our activities following the 1960 census.

Montana does not anticipate much increase in population in the 1960 census. The present plan, however, would be easier to expedite, were the limitation set at 25,000 population rather than 10,000. Centers could be more easily developed in several areas if more help could be offered to the large library.

New Jersey.-There are 35 municipalities in the State which were under 10,000 in 1950 and are now estimated over 10,000. An estimated 446,306 people are now residing in these. At present these benefit under New Jersey's program for use of Federal aid. After the 1960 census is promulgated, they will not unless the population base of the Library Services Act is raised. It is the smaller municipalities of New Jersey that have increasing need for public library demonstrations.

New Mexico.-Public libraries with inadequate service and funds which are being served by the regional libraries will be cut off from the strength and support of the regional libraries. This would react unfavorably to the State agency and library service in general, as well as future Federal aid. Small public libraries share in county funds. County funds are appropriated to regional libraries also, and county commissioners see the importance of increasing regional librray appropriations since that service extends to the entire county. The small public library inadequately equipped to serve a community of 12,000 to 15,000 might completely disintegrate or request increased funds from the county.

Several small libraries within a county receiving increased county funds could draw off all funds otherwise appropriated to the regional library. This could mean the disintegration of the regional library which would deprive the small libraries of their source of strength, augmented book stock, professional advice, and reference and research service.

New York.-Would make increasingly difficult the differentiation of two library extension programs-rural and nonrural.

Ohio. It is estimated that 16 of the towns with libraries in them now below 10,000 population will exceed that figure in the 1960 census. Basically, however, we do not think the population limit of 10,000 will affect our program too much.

Oklahoma. The present limitation of 10,000 will not affect Oklahoma as much as it will in other areas. We have so few cities above 10,000. Seven or eight towns of just under 10,000 population will probably pass the 10,000 mark and become ineligible to receive Library Services Act funds. These towns are trade centers for rural areas and to eliminate service to them will probably mean that the entire county must be deprived of library service.

Rhode Island.-The census of 1960 may affect 25 percent of our rural communities, involving as many as 10 libraries. I had so hoped that those originally in the program could continue for the duration. In fact, I had hoped that libraries in communities of the 10,000 to 25,000 population range could be included for they need it desperately and their librarians have expressed highly wishful sentiments.

South Carolina.-With the present population limitation of 10,000, we anticipate that the 1960 census figures will eliminate to a certain percentage the State and Federal participation in the regional library demonstration in the Aiken-Barnwell-Edgefield area, since Aiken is bound to go over the 10,000 population figure.

Tennessee.-I infer from question 4, that there may be some doubt as to the wisdom of retaining the 10,000 population limitation. We are strongly in favor of that limitation because those are the areas most in need of help in Tennessee. Having the Federal funds limited to rural areas relieves us of the constant pressure by the big city libraries for more State money. Of course, everybody needs more money but there are wide differences in the degree of need. What would really help us is some adjustment in the comparison of current State funds (after the 1960 census) with those of 1955-56. Perhaps we could apply the 1955-56 percentage of rural population in making a comparison. Mr. ELLIOTT. Our next witness is Miss Margaret Klausner, director of library services, Stockton Public and San Joaquin County Libraries, California.

Miss Klausner, we are very happy to have you here and we look forward to hearing your statement. You may proceed in any manner you see fit. If you want to summarize your statement and speak without benefit of the statement you may do so or if you wish to read your statement, you may do that.

Miss KLAUSNER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I shall choose to read the statement and if any members of the committee desire to stop and question me, I shall be happy to answer questions.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Very well.

STATEMENT OF MARGARET KLAUSNER, DIRECTOR OF LIBRARY SERVICES, STOCKTON PUBLIC AND SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY LIBRARIES, CALIFORNIA

Miss KLAUSNER. My name is Margaret Klausner. I am director of library services for Stockton, Calif., and the county of San Joaquin. I am here today as director of the Amador-Stockton Library project, one of California's Library Services Act projects. As immediate past president of the California Library Association's Public Library Sec

tion, I am conversant with public library problems throughout California as well as with my own project.

California needs the Library Services Act and I should like to urge the extension of its provisions as proposed in the legislation before this subcommittee.

The implementation of the act has been curtailed by lack of appropriations and time pressures. Now in its fourth year of operation in California, the effects of what we have been able to do are just being felt and recognized. Let me review briefly for you the situation:

At maximum California's share of the Federal appropriations for 4 years is some $957,000. To date, $622,204 has been received. With this amount, plus local and State matching funds, we have initiated and completed four projects, and have underway and scheduled for this year five more. In the overall view 19 counties and 472,000 rural residents are directly affected.

The completed projects have resulted in better patterns of library service and better quality of service. Three of these the AmadorStockton plan, the Butte County bookmobile and the Lassen-PlumasSierra County unification have resulted in better local support for extended services to their respective rural populations. In Santa Barbara counties where a project developed informational materials and extended nonfiction book collections into rural areas, library use was so stimulated that the county manager is requesting a 200 percent increase in local support to develop these services.

The projects now underway include a processing center at Sacramento which orders, classifies, catalogs, and prepares for use the books of 16 member libraries. These are small city and county libraries serving the rural populations of north and north-central California.

In San Diego County a bookmobile demonstration is in action. In the San Joaquin Valley-a predominantly rural area-11 city and county libraries are developing a centralized reference center which will use modern means of communication to bring together their users and current informational materials.

Preparatory work to initiate a demonstration of how small libraries can by cooperative action strengthen and extend their services is now being done by a group of libraries north of San Francisco Bay. There are 20 libraries involved in this project.

A scholarship-fellowship program has been initiated. Grants will be made to qualifying people who upon completion of study and training will work in California libraries serving rural areas. Like most of the Nation, California lacks sufficient qualified personnel to meet its requirements in library service as in many other fields.

The Federal program was slow in starting and deliberate in getting underway. Difficulties in proper staffing, the necessity to establish good procedures, and insufficient appropriations have caused it to drag. The basic minimum needs for better library service are still here. We are underway in California now and we want to continue. The impetus which this sampling of better services has given to communities needs to be furthered.

A recent statewide survey of California public library services has revealed some startling information. In California there are 211 public libraries but there are six counties containing 86,000 people (1950 census) which have no public library service. There are 63