FARMS FED TO RIVERS

They have caused
They have washed

"Untamed rivers have been a savage destructive force. large damages to property. They have taken many lives. away precious topsoil. Every year 600,000,000 tons of topsoil still find their way into the Gulf of Mexico. In the West floodwaters rush past dry land that needs only water to make it prosperous."

"Another 20 years may see an additional 20,000,000 people among us, and these new people will need millions of new acres of cropland to feed them.

"One of the major public problems is the future of about 200,000,000 acres of public domain.

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"In addition to 145,000,000 acres of lands in Federal grazing districts and 56,000,000 acres of Indian land, this [Interior] Department supervises about 83,000,000 acres of forest, mineral-bearing, and other unclassified land in the continental United States and another 344,000,000 acres in Alaska. In the main, this is the last remaining part of the 'public domain,' the land which nobody wanted very much, the land without people.

"It has 20,000,000 acres of forests, but does not include the 170,000,000 acres of national forests which are under the supervision of the United States Forest Service in the Department of Agriculture. It does include about 14,000,000 acres of national parks and 6,000,000 to 7,000,000 acres of wildlife refuges and game ranges.

"Much of our red meat eats off the Government. One beef animal in every five and two sheep in every five get about 4 months of their feeding each year in the public domain, and, in spite of the low quality of most of the range, get it for very little. There are 145,000,000 acres of Federal range lands, and the beef animals pay an average of 20 cents and the sheep 4 cents a season. The Grazing Service of this Department administered 60 grazing districts. In addition to the Federal land, it covered 119,000,000 acres of State and private lands. The total area was 264,000,000 acres. That is an area greater than Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana combined. It is largely in the arid part of the West.

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"The Federal range may now be considered to be not over 50 percent efficient for its purpose.

"Conservation has started on 11,000,000 acres and is planned for another 49,000,000. But at the rate we are going we can never expect to catch up with the job. In 1946 only 1,200,000 acres were being treated. Meanwhile, 73,000,000 acres were getting progressively worse."

Secretary Krug's report shows why "private enterprise," which has gotten countless billions of profits out of despoiling the Nation's resources, is doomed.

Mr. MARSH. Now, the real question at issue is, it seems to me, whether we are going to recognize the fact that the natural resources of this country are there, given for all the people of the country and not for 6, 8 or 10 millionaires in both branches of Congress, or their constituents, who are interested in this business.

I presume you do not want any impertinence of Drew Pearson in the record, but it is usually rather pertinent impertinence.

Senator MOORE. You may file that in the record, too, if you want to.. That will be all right.

Mr. MARSH. I guess you folks are getting worried.

(The material referred to was filed with the committee.)

Mr. MARSH. Now, I would like to point out an analogy.

Of course, all these gentlemen-and maybe there are some women on the public utilities commissions; I remember you used to have Kate Bonnet down in Oklahoma on the Public Charities Commission-have pretty good jobs. They don't want to be interfered with by a Federal agency. But we have to face up to the fact that every

body is coming to the Federal Government for help and the Government is going to control our economic life.

Congress will enact legislation to permit that, or it is coming otherwise. I think Congress will.

We have a lot of oil in this country, but you know what a mess we are in as to oil over in Saudi Arabia, and Iran, and what not. Why? Because the natural resources of the world are here for the use of all the people.

Bringing it right down to this Rizley bill, nobody but a Federal agency can properly determine to what use exhaustible and sometimes nearly exhausted natural resources in this country are to be put.

The individual wants to get rich quick, and can sometimes manipulate a State legislature or a State regulatory body. The State regulatory body, whatever you call it, commission or whatnot, doesn't like Uncle Sam butting in, but the Federal Government has got to assume responsibility for the welfare of the entire people.

No State legislature, no State commission, can handle it.

Why, it was the businessmen of this country who first came begging a handout from Uncle Sam. I think it was Senator Wolcott, of Connecticut, who introduced the first bill-he was a Republican, in the session of 1932, creating the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, to bail out these so-called private enterprise concerns.

By the same token, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, we can't leave it up to State bodies, or municipal authorities, or anybody of that sort, to determine the economic development of the Nation.

I haven't yet seen a reasonable excuse given for the introduction of this bill.

As Drew Pearson suggests-I think I had better read it, because I don't want to do him an injustice

Senator MOORE. No; let us not do that. Let us not misquote anybody.

Mr. MARSH. Oh, I wouldn't misquote anybody. The truth is bad enough, God knows.

How important the Federal Power Commission is to the oil and gas industry is graphically illustrated by a bill now before Congress called the Rizley bill. Senator Ed Moore, of Oklahoma, himself a big oil man, is holding hearings on the bill this week, and if it passes, it will increase profits to the big gas distributing companies by between 20 and 30 percent

I won't continue that. The Federal Power Commission gave all of the facts.

But here is the interesting point :

One company which will profit most from the Rizley bill is Cities Service, and it so happens that Congressman Rizley's law firm, back in Oklahoma, is listed as representing Cities Service. In fact, his law firm is also listed as representing several gas companies which will profit from this bill, including Republic Natural Gas and the Panhandle Eastern Pipe Line Co.

It is even suspected on Capitol Hill that it was not Congressman Rizley himself, but his firm's gas company clients who really wrote the so-called gas company gravy bill.

That is enough, I think. The rest will be in the record.

Mr. WOODWARD. Do you believe everything you read in the papers? Mr. MARSH. No; but when I read a statement that is true or libelous, I hope the gentlemen who feel that they have been libeled will have recourse to the law, and if they don't, the presumption is that there is some truth in it.

Senator MOORE. Your time is up, Mr. Marsh. I will give you another 5 minutes.

Mr. MARSH. That is very generous.

Now, I wish that in the consideration of this bill, you would ask all of the witnesses who have appeared before you, to file a statement. I haven't been able to read all of their statements, just as I haven't been able to read the full statement of the Federal Power Commission. I just got it this morning.

But I wish you would ask these gentlemen who have appeared before you, to supplement their statements by a statement of how they acquired these natural resources, and what their present capitalization is, and what profits they have been making on actual prudent investment.

I think that is reasonable enough.

And if you want a statement of the income of the Peoples' Lobby, I would be very glad to give it to you.

But if we have that information from witnesses we will get a good deal of sidelight—and it is very important-on the objectives of this bill.

Why is it that they are so afraid to have the Federal Power Commission control a natural monopoly?

I presume, Mr. Chairman, that you would agree that the mere fact that natural resources are located in Oklahoma or Kansas or Texas, or any other State of the Union, does not mean that the people of that State or the individuals, relatively few in most cases, who somehow or other have gotten title to these natural resources, are justified in exploiting the people of the United States as a whole. I think that is a tenable position.

If that is the case, then it logically follows that the only agency which can protect the entire American people is the Federal Government. And it is therefore incumbent upon the Federal Government to see that there are proper rules and regulations laid down.

I was very much impressed by Mr. Robinson's statement that there are some facts which the Federal Power Commission might ask for which might cost them, if I remember his statement, between one and a half and two million dollars.

Yes, it was between one and a half and two million dollars; all of which, he said, "We would eventually have to get from our Ohio customers."

Then, if I correctly understood him, in his supplementary statement, he said that all of this data was available in the report to the State commissions.

Then, of course, the concerns he represents, have a carbon copy, and why he should say they are going to soak their consumers one and a half to two million dollars extra to send a carbon copy of this to the Federal Commission passes my understanding.

But I am not defending free enterprise in the ordinary sense of grab what you can and let the Congress give you the rest.

I hope, Mr. Chairman, that you will accept these suggestions. I would say that if the Republican Party wants to insure defeat this winter-I mean this fall; I guess it is going to seem like winter-they should by all odds pass a bill like this.

Because, remember, all through the West and the Northwest they are for public ownership of natural resources. They have the greatest confidence in the Federal Power Commission, the Federal Trade Commission, and other of our commissions, which have much more effectively protected the people of the United States than all of the State regulatory bodies, commissions, governors, and legislatures.

Is my time up?

Senator MOORE. Your time is up.

Mr. MARSH. I am sure you are grateful that I have not given you any more unpleasant facts.

Senator MOORE. That seems to be all of the witnesses for today. We had one more witness who was given an opportunity, but on account of illness he could not be here today.

Before we recess, I should like to place in the record a letter received from Mr. Leslie T. Fournier with accompanying tabulation. It will be placed in the record at this point.

(The letter with accompanying tabulation referred is as follows:)

HON. E. H. MOORE,

PANHANDLE EASTERN PIPE LINE COMPANY,
New York, N. Y., February 10, 1948.

Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce,

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C.

DEAR SENATOR MOORE: Yesterday when I was discussing with your committee the comparison between residential and wholesale prices of natural gas in 1946, I pointed to the very substantial difference that exists in most of the States between the average price for residential gas including house heating and the wholesale price at which the distributing utility companies buy natural gas from the pipe-line companies. At the time I was testifying I did not have individual copies of the chart presenting that information and it is my purpose to furnish them to your committee tomorrow. I believe the information presented on the chart clearly demonstrates the fact that a small increase in the wholesale price of natural gas would have either no effect or certainly no appreciable effect upon the price at which gas is sold to the great mass of consumers for their domestic use.

I omitted to put in the record some of the specific figures shown on the chart and I should like to take this opportunity to do so. There is enclosed with this letter a table showing the comparison for each of the States. You will note. for example, that the average price of residential gas in Illinois is 10.3 times the average wholesale price; in Indiana the relationship is 6.3 to 1; in Louisiana it is 5.7 to 1 and so forth. In answer to Mr. Woodward's question the weighted average residential price for the United States is 63.8 cents, the weighted average wholesale price is 17.5 cents and the average relationship is 3.7 to 1. I would appreciate having these facts included in the record.

Very truly yours,

LESLIE T. FOURNIER.

No.

Comparison between residential and whole prices of natural gas, 1946

State

Senator MOORE. We are going to consider tomorrow, as I understand it, these proposed amendments.

Chairman Smith has asked that he be permitted to go on record in discussing these amendments, and we will just take that matter up in the morning at 10 o'clock, here in this room.

We will recess at this time.

(Whereupon, at 4 p. m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene at 10 a. m., Wednesday, February 11, 1948.)