search would involve those concerned: Local and State authorities, teachers, schools, and boards of education, labor and employer groups, social welfare agencies, and others. Such study would establish facts which the Committee would analyze and upon which it would base its recommendations to the Secretary. Some of these would doubtless be matters upon which the Department could act through its constituents: The Office of Education, the Children's Bureau, and Probably more would involve action which local and State groups should so on. take. The cost of such studies as the Committee might recommend would depend on their scope. One of the functions of the Committee would be to consider proposed study plans and budgets for recommendation to the Secretary. At the present time, the Office of Education has no legislative authority to enter into contracts for jointly financed research projects with colleges, universities, State departments of education, local school systems, and nonprofit organizations. Joint efforts with such groups are of basic importance because it is in these agencies that able research personnel and resources that could not otherwise be enlisted are to be found. A prime advantage of cooperative work with agencies in the field is that such procedure avoids the centralization of staff and facilities in Washington. There are many areas in the field of education in which cooperative research holds out great promise for increased economy and efficiency. Examples of research areas in which studies might be undertaken to improve school efficiency are: 1. Costs of school and college buildings. 2. Business procedures in schools and colleges. 3. School district reorganization. 4. Adequate staffing of teaching, engineering, and other shortage professions. 5. Teaching methods. 6. Relationships of community health and social agencies to community programs. This General practice with respect to educational research today usually involves study of local problems by those directly concerned at the local level. procedure is sometimes wasteful because many matters of local concern are, in fact, common to other groups across our Nation. Too often only those concerned locally profit from their research. Enlarging the scope of a local or State study so as to make its findings usable by others in other regions would be an efficient 46149-54-4 procedure. But a locality or State would be reluctant to put in the added cost just to make the research for demonstration more useful on a nationwide basis. For example, Minnesota may be studying more effective use of the services of teachers. Many other States may share the same general concern, but the particulars of their respective problems may be sufficiently different to render the Minnesota findings inapplicable for their purposes. This bill would make possible contributions of funds from the Office of Education and the assistance of staff members of the Office of Education who are familiar with areas which require study-to the end that research and surveys of general interest be enlarged as appropriate to make them widely useful. This, Mr. Chairman, concludes our testimony in support of S. 2723, S. 2724, and S. 2856. So summarize: The State and White House conferences on education would foster nationwide understanding of the problems of education and mobilize resources for local, State, and Federal action. The National Advisory Committee would make available the advice and recommendations of outstanding citizens. Cooperative research in education would stimulate solutions to educational problems of national significance. Together, the three bills guarantee, we believe, a wise, constructive, and wellbalanced approach to the educational problems of the Nation. We, therefore, urge favorable consideration of these bills by your committee. Senator COOPER. Senator Upton. Senator UPTON. I have no questions. Senator HILL. Mrs. Secretary, are these three bills part of what you term your "new dynamic program"? Secretary HOBBY. Would you mind identifying your quote, Senator Hill? Senator HILL. In previous hearings you have used the term "new dynamic program" I recall. Secretary HOBBY. Yes. Senator HILL. What I was interested in knowing is: Are these three bills part of what you spoke of as your new dynamic program? Secretary HOBBY. Yes, Senator Hill. We think these three bills provide, and I am sure you heard the testimony which I have just read, a well-balanced and long-needed approach to the educational problems of the Nation. As you can see by these charts that Dr. Brownell has illustrated here, there has been allowed to grow up in this country a serious educational problem. We believe that the citizens and educators of this country not only should have the right but should have the responsibility to get together in State conferences to discuss the items Dr. Brownell mentionedproperty assessment, bonding limitations, possible redistricting and so forth. Out of the 48 conferences would come materials that would be available to a White House conference. We believe that the educational problems of this Nation are so great that we must make a three-pronged attack in order to meet what we consider a very serious situation. Senator HILL. I think all the evidence you presented this morning and all the evidence we have had here before Congress in recent years show how serious the situation is, and we all favor conferences. It is all good to have conferences but don't you think it is time for action? Secretary HOBBY. If I had thought so, Senator Hill, I wouldn't have proposed the conferences. It is true there are many types of information in the field of education, but nowhere that we can find have all the problems been pulled together. I know I need not remind the Senator, who has so long been interested in education, that some of the problems are in the local school districts, and some of the problems are at the State level. Therefore it seems to us, for the Federal Government to take a sound position, that there must be some consolidated_thinking from the local school board straight through to the State Department of Education and straight on through to the national Government. Senator HILL. Are you familiar with the reports of the two commissions that President Eisenhower appointed when he was President of Columbia University, one on the conservation of human resources and one known as the National Manpower Council? Secretary HOBBY. Yes; I am, and Dr. Brownell probably isSenator HILL. President Eisenhower made a very comprehensive report. I was impressed when Dr. Brownell was showing us one of his charts about the number of boys and girls who fall out of high school and are not able to go forward with their education. Now, the Council would believe that less than half of those are capable of acquiring a degree in a college and 40 percent of those who start college, many with superior ability, do not graduate. The Council went on to report that for every high-school graduate who eventually earns a doctoral degree, 25 others who have the intellectual ability should achieve that degree, but do not, and then the Council laid great emphasis, sounded a warning, that our national security is threatened by our failure to build the full strength of our human resources by severe shortages of engineers, scientists of all kinds, teachers, doctors, nurses, and others with special skills. It is interesting in that connection that just not many months ago Dr. Waterman, Chairman of the National Science Foundation, in testifying before the House committee, spoke about what Russia is doing to provide scientists and engineers and people of special skills and how, by 1955, Russia will turn out from schools and colleges, universities, 50,000 engineers, whereas the United States will turn out only some 17,000. Don't you think in the light of all the information we have that we ought to really be dynamic? The word "dynamic," as I understand it, implies action-action, moving forward-not simply killing maybe a year or a year and a half or 2 years, or longer, holding some more conferences. Those conferences are all right. They may be very helpful, but don't you think it is time to act? Secretary HOBBY. Senator, I regret that this situation has been allowed to develop to the point where it is now, and I certainly think that it would have been well to have held these conferences several years back, so that the country might have the kind of information that we are seeking here to approach these problems. Senator HILL. Don't you think we have enough information on many fronts to move on many, many fronts? For instance, Mrs. Hobby, the distinguished chairman of the subcommittee, Senator Cooper, as I understand, in opening this meeting, referred to the fact that we have before this subcommittee two bills to provide Federal aid for school construction. One of those bills is offered by Senator Cooper, the distinguished chairman of this subcommittee. The other bill was introduced by Senator McClellan, of Arkansas, for himself and 25 other Senators, including the Senator from Alabama. Senator COOPER. The distinguished Senator. Senator HILL. Thank you, sir. I had hoped you would come nearer to at least moving more forward on that front, because I recall back in 1952-and I checked on it to find the exact date, on October 9, 1952, that was a mementous period in American history, if I may say so, October 9, 1952-President Eisenhower told the American people, and I quote President Eisenhower now: More than 60 percent of all our public school classrooms are now seriously overcrowded. By 1958 it is estimated that our school system will have a shortage of 600,000 classrooms. This year 1,700,000 American boys and girls are without any school facilities. The President continued: The American answer is to do in this field what we have been doing for a long time in other fields. We have helped the States build highways and local farmto-market roads. We have provided Federal funds to help the States build hospitals and mental institutions. Don't you agree with what President Eisenhower said on October 9, 1952, that we ought to move forward? Secretary HOBBY. Yes, sir. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here before you today testifying in behalf of these three bills. Senator, I think there are many ways to define the word "action." I believe that we would get action in 48 States much faster, and would solve some of the educational problems that we have outlined here very much faster if all of the 48 States joined in the solution of these problems. Obviously the National Government can't solve the educational problems of the Nation. I do not believe the people of the United States or the educators would ever want the National or the Federal Government to control education. I know I need not say here that we are very proud that government has belonged to the people of the United States and never to the Federal Government and certainly we would hope to keep it that way. I, myself, believe that we can solve these problems much faster by getting agreement as to what all levels of government can do-what a local school board can do, and there are many things that it can do, what a State Department of Education and a State legislature can do and what the Federal Government can do. As you know, there are some States which give no aid to local school boards in the construction of schools. It seems to me once we determine the responsibility of the various levels of government as they relate to our educational system then perhaps we could move forward on a broader front than a Federal aid. to school construction for which, as you know, the estimates run from $10 to $12 billion. Neither could one appropriate or spend in 1, 2 or 3 years the total sums required. I think we have to ask ourselves very seriously what damage we might do to the educational system of the country if we were to appropriate small sums of money thereby perhaps causing States and communities to hold back from building their own problems. Senator HILL. My dear lady-excuse me. I don't want to interrupt you, but, on the other hand, isn't this the history of all Federal aid, that instead of Federal aid causing the States to hold back, Federal aid has proved a tremendous stimulus to cause the States and the local communities to come forward, to match the aid, the Federal aid, to go forward with the building of these things to which President Eisenhower referred? Take your highways, your farm-to-market roads, your hospitals, your other institutions. Instead of the Federal aid causing these States and local communities to hold back or to sit down, it has proved a tremendous stimulus. I say this to you, my dear lady, the record shows, if you will examine it, it has been astounding how the States and local communities have come forward with their own funds, with their own actions through a relatively small amount of Federal aid. Secretary HOBBY. Sir, had the Senator allowed me to finish the thought, the thought I would have made would be this: Once you can determine through these conferences what a local school board can do and what a State department of education can do, and what the responsibility and need for the Federal Government to do, then I think Federal aid can be exactly what you say. Senator HILL. It has certainly proved in the field of roads and hospitals and many other fields that the Federal aid has been a stimulus. Do you know of any illustration where Federal aid has blocked or stopped progress and not been a stimulus? Secretary HOBBY. I did not say that, Senator Hill. Senator HILL. I understand that. I didn't mean to say you said. it; but I just wonder if you do know of any illustration. Frankly, I am disappointed. Secretary HOBBY. I gather that. Senator HILL. I am very, very much disppointed. I remember well when President Eisenhower made the statement back in 1952, and I know the leadership the distinguished chairman of the subcommittee has given in the introduction of his bill and in his advocacy of this cause; and, of course, your own charts today show the crying, compelling need for new school facilities, new school buildings. Secretary HOBBY. That is true. Senator HILL. You and I know Secretary HOBBY. Senator Hill, our approach is different. I think we both want to do the same thing. I think we both want to see the finest and best educational facilities provided for the American children. I don't think there is any dispute about your conviction on that. Our approaches are different. Senator HILL. You think, then, when the Senate on two occasions passed, by overwhelming votes, Federal aid bills for education it was certainly wrong. It should have waited to have a lot of conferences? Secretary HOBBY. Senator, I am sure the Senate of the United States always exercises the greatest wisdom. |