to convey to other peoples the feeling that we are really interested in them, and that our sole objective is to help them realize their highest potential; but when I say that, I do not want to suggest that it is impossible to carry on the activities of the mutual security program in such a way as to achieve the same objective. I believe that in the technical assistance and in the special assistance programs they can conduct them in such a way as to demonstrate to other peoples that our primary concern is in them, and that they are not just pawns on a chessboard.

Senator YARBOROUGH. I hope this bill will pass, and that it is administered in such a way as to convince the peoples of the world that it has no military or political objectives, but is for the benefit of mankind.

Secretary FLEMMING. I agree with you, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cooper.

Senator COOPER. Mr. Secretary, I read your statement, and also Dr. Burney's, and there are two questions that I wish to ask :

First, your testimony and Dr. Burney's suggestion that this program shall not be considered an aid program, or as a unilateral program. Now, all our health programs today, other than our contributions to international organizations, are, in effect, aid programs, are they not? You mentioned a great number of activities.

Secretary FLEMMING. I think the word "aid" is a proper word, but they have as their objectives helping other peoples to realize their possibilities.

Senator COOPER. They are also unilateral programs, are they not? They might result in multilateral or bilateral relationships, but we make the decisions and control the arrangements.

Secretary FLEMMING. Yes.

Senator COOPER. I am one of the cosponsors of this resolution and I am glad to be one, but it declares itself as a unilateral international benefit to medical research.

However, when you consider it as an advance beyond unilateral control, you suggest that we would not control all the decisions as to the programs to be undertaken and the grants to be given, yet you have indicated that it is not a radical approach, but is a program under the control wholly of the United States.

Would you elaborate on that suggestion that has been made there. Secretary FLEMMING. Senator Cooper, I think your observation is a very important one. Of course, as I understand the objectives of this bill, it would make it possible for us to cooperate to an even greater degree with an organization such as the World Health Organization, for example.

As I indicated in my testimony, we made $300,000 available to the World Health Organization some months ago so that they might develop a plan for international medical research. Then as I also indicated, the executive branch is recommending to the Congress that in 1960 a contribution of $1 million be made to the World Health Organization, in order to enable it to get its work in the field of medical research underway.

Now, take that $1 million as an example. Once we make that contribution to the World Health Organization, of course we lose control of it, except insofar as we participate with other nations in the work

of the World Health Organization, but they would administer then $1 million; and I assume that under this bill, as the funds are made available, that other grants or contributions of that kind would be made, not only to the World Health Organization, but to other international organizations.

Senator COOPER. Now, I simply ask this second question: Do you consider that this resolution changes the actual structure of our present activities, other than perhaps bringing them into one organization, strengthening the research effort, and increasing the amounts that will be made available? Is there any change other than that?

Secretary FLEMMING. I think, as I indicated in my statement, that what this does, first of all, of course, is to reaffirm the conviction of both the executive and legislative branches, as to what we should be doing in this area.

In the second place, I think it provides for a more effective carrying out of the announced objectives. It will provide coordination and strength in administration. I do not think that this bill departs philosophically from the approach that this Government has taken at other times, and through other laws in this particular area.

After all, we have made all of these contributions that I listed in my testimony. We have participated in the international medical research field.

Of course, whenever we appropriate money for a particular objective, then some unit in the executive branch of the Government does control the administration of that money. For example, I was talking with Dr. Burney just the other day about this:

When these applications are filed for grants for medical research. we will determine whether or not the quality of the proposed project is such as to justify our putting money into it. Now, that is a unilateral decision on the part of our Government, or on the part of a representative of our Government, so that I do not think that it does away with what you have referred to as the unilateral approach in terms of making the initial decision. That is still there. It must be there. I do not see any way of escaping that.

Senator COOPER. That was my point. In addition to emphasizing the importance of medical research, you are bringing the diferen functions and works together, and increasing the amount. There is not any radical departure from what has been done before or is being done now, is there!

Secretary FLEMMING. That is right. I agree with you contiener on that. I think it is a step forward, a constructive step forward bir it does not represent a radical departure from what we have her doing as a nation up to now. I agree with you.

Toe CHAIRMAN. Is that all. Senator Cooper !
Senator CocPER. That is all.

STATEMENT OF HON. HUBERT B. HUMPHREY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA

The CHAIRMAN, Senator Humphrey, we have been looking forvari tradr'asure to bearing Crews SMACY HUMPHRY. In my inef statement, which I have reeNILJAČ tars some ročnís I believe, which have been raised by the Secretar ference of goric

Many of the points have been touched on. If it is agreeable with the chairman, I should just like to refer to a few points I have in this statement and then file memoranda in the interest of time for the record, if that is agreeable?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, of course it is agreeable, but first, let me say this: I want to bid welcome to this committee hearing to one of the few men in the United States who has consistently and persistently demonstrated interest in and given of his time and thought and leadership to promoting the cause which this resolution embodies.

Senator HUMPHREY. Thank you. I can only tell you that my interest in this is one of long duration, and that it has been inspired by the leadership of the chairman of this committee.

There are just one or two references that I should like to make concerning Senate Joint Resolution 41, of a general nature.

Let it be noted that three-fifths of the Members of the Senate are cosponsors of this bill, which indicates its wide acceptance. But, as has been indicated here, I am sure a number of the sponsors will want to look at it in terms of the refinements that may be necessary, in order to improve it, after we have heard such fine testimony.

The principal points, as I see them, relating to the bill, are as follows:

First of all, there is really no controversy, I believe, as to the need for this legislation, nor as to its desirability.

The resolution is directed toward a good constructive purpose, and it is primarily directed toward emphasis on proper administration. As to a specific authorization figure being set under the bill, I think it should be; you ought to have some target. The amount now specified in the bill of $50 million is very, very, reasonable.

I should like to point out that $50 million is not much more than 1 percent of the money that Congress will be asked to approve under this year's mutual security legislation.

It is a mighty small fraction of the amount that we will be asked to approve for our national defense.

I have noted in my statement that there are four responsible checks in the administration and in the Congress on any overspending in case any such events should occur.

The first check is the separate appropriations process itself.

The second is the Advisory Council for International Medical Research. The third is this committee itself, and its House of Representatives counterpart. The fourth is the Bureau of the Budget, which has a unique capacity for being able to engage in slamming on the brakes. Once in a while, they might cause you to smash right through the windshield, I might add.

I hope that there will never be any comment about this bill pertaining to the Budget, because the amount involved here is so small it would almost be a disservice to the cause of medicine and humanity itself to try to equate this legislation with any problems relating to the Budget.

This is a low financial ceiling in this bill, $50 million. That, it seems to me, within itself indicates the care with which the bill was prepared.

Now, the question comes up about the use of the funds. Secretary Flemming, I fully appreciate your comments as to how many applica

tions would come in, whether or not all of the applications would be meritorious, and as to just how much money could be used.

I say, most respectfully, that the amount that is authorized here would not challenge the imagination too much for us in approving good projects.

In Helsinki, in November 1958, I met with the president of the Finnish Academy of Sciences, a Nobel award winner, Prof. A. I. Virtanen. He promised to send me some material relating to the operation of Finland's medical research program, as well as the cooperation that Finland has received from the United States. Much of this, Senator Hill, is from private agencies. He also outlined a broad research program, if Finland could have some help. It goes without saying that even this one group of Finnish programs would take up a substantial sum of money where there are dedicated people.

I think it is fair to say that a good four or five hundred thousand dollars could be well used with the existing facilities that I saw at Helsinki, Finland. They will do a lot of good with it. They will get more, dollar for dollar, out of their scientific research funds, than in many areas of the world. The dedication of these people is something that really touches your heart, also the sacrifices they have gone through to put up these facilities.

I might add one other thing, Senator Hill, and I am not sure whether we ought to have it in this bill or in other legislation, but somewhere we must place in the field of international medical research and health the use of these counterpart funds.

Now, take Finland, for example. The Finns could use some of the counterpart funds, Finn marks to the account of the United States of America in the Bank of Finland. The Finn marks, together with the dollars that might come, would make a very substantial contribution to their medical research.

Secretary FLEMMING. May I comment on that, Senator Humphrey? I agree with you 100 percent and I would like to work with the committee to see whether or not it would be advantageous, in making better use of these funds, to have some reference to it in this proposed bill.

Now, it may be that the existing authorities are adequate or it may be, as you suggest, that it belongs in another bill, but I have the feeling that we are not making as constructive a use of those funds as we should, and it seems to me that this is an area which is natural for the use of those funds.

So, I would like very much to work with the committee on that particular point.

Senator HUMPHREY. May I say to the chairman and to you, Mr. Secretary, we are having two studies made, one by the Committee on Agriculture, which is looking into the accumulation of these funds as the result of the sale of agricultural commodities, and another study by the Foreign Relations Committee. I hope before all the testimony is through here that we can give you a memorandum so that you and your committee members and members of the staff may look it over. The CHAIRMAN. May I say we would certainly want that memorandum.

Senator HUMPHREY. It seems to me this could be of great help. The only one thing I want to say definitely is: I do not want to see these soft currencies, these counterpart funds, these accumulated domestic

finances, in any way, to dilute the amount of dollars you are asking for. This is something that has to be quite clearly understood, because the soft currencies have definite limitations.

Just very quickly, Mr. Chairman, I want to make a few suggestions. The first is that the Institute's title-and I am looking at the title on the joint resolution-might be amended to read as follows: "The National Institute for International Health and Medical Research." The reason for adding the words "Health and" is quite well indicated in the bill itself. It has been confirmed by many witnesses. The new Institute that you seek to set up will devote considerable attention not simply to combating disases, but to improve the health of man. The Institute would aid in biology, chemistry, physics, and other research, which is not necessarily and primarily medical.

I realize that this is not new. I just want to reiterate what other witnesses have indicated.

Secondly, there will be some people that will indicate that possibly we are trying to take over responsibilities of other countries. Senator Hill has pointed out again and again that the purpose of this bill is definitely not to relieve any foreign government of the responsibility for doing its utmost in the research field. As the language of the bill says, it is designed "to encourage and support foreign research." I believe it is fair to say that you look upon this as "seed money," generating more activity. I think this is important to underscore.

Therefore, it would be wise to have a precautionary paragraph in the bill as well as in the report, so that there is no chance that some foreign government, regardless of its capabilities, may assume that it can meet existing or future research obligations by simply coming to the U.S. Government for support.

I will offer some suggestive language which I will file in the first memorandum, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Senator HUMPHREY. Thirdly, in the field of nutrition-and we have heard comments this morning on nutrition-in view of the importance of food or the lack of it, I respectfully suggest consideration of an added sentence under section 2, which might read: "(e) Nutritional factors impairing, contributing to, or otherwise affecting optimum health."

Study of nutrition obviously comes within the research picture. The CHAIRMAN. May I say, Senator, we have had some testimony which supports the statement you are making now, and your suggestions.

Senator HUMPHREY. Thank you.

Next we have the problem of coordination, it seems to me. I mean the problem of maximizing the effectiveness of all diverse medical research activities.

In my little exploration of some countries, I looked into what the Department of Defense was doing in its overseas bio-chemical contracts; what the U.S. Public Health Service was doing; what the International Cooperation Administration was doing. I looked at them primarily from an administrative point of view, because that is the jurisdiction of the subcommittee study to which I was assigned. The substantive problem of health is the jurisdiction, obviously, of this legislative committee.