such an indecent manner, before the peo nity of so petitioning. But he would say in question. Even an hon. baronet, the member for Devonshire (sir Thomas Ac-ple of Scotland could have an opportu land) who had presented so many petitions against it, and who seemed so willing to support the ministers in imposing it, had stated no reason for his predilection. Mr. Brougham said, he could only account for this extraordinary silence, on the supposition, that the gentlemen who approved of the renewal of this tax, felt themselves so much at variance in their sentiments with the expressed sense of the country, that they were ashamed to avow themselves. The national wish had been so unequivocally expressed, that they were afraid to raise their voice against it. He hoped the gentlemen on the opposite side would be induced to forego their silence that night-that they would take some sort of notice of what had fallen from those near him, and offer some defence of the measures they meant to support. Mr. Forbes thought it his duty to state to the House, that in the course of last autumn he had travelled from one end of Scotland to the other, that among all classes of the people of that country, he had found the income tax held in execration, and that they declared their firm reliance on the faith of parliament, that this tax would not be continued. These sentiments were not confined to the owners and occupiers of land, but were also expressed by persons engaged in trade and manufactures. This he thought it right to state, as from the shortness of the time which had elapsed since the continuance of the tax had been announced, it was impossible that many petitions could have yet arrived from Scotland. But if a sufficient time was allowed, he was convinced there was but a very small proportion of the inhabitants of that country who would not petition against the tax. Mr. Ponsonby regretted that the chancellor of the exchequer should have been absent during the speech of the hon. gentleman who had just sat down; but he hoped that some of his friends would communicate to him the information conveyed by that hon. gentleman to the House. There was no one who knew that hon. gentleman who would not respect his account, and place the greatest reliance on it. When that hon. gentleman declared that there was not one place in Scotland which would not petition against the income tax, he hoped the chancellor of the exchequer would not persist in his intention of hurrying it through the House in Lord Milton observed, that the reason why petitions had not arrived from Scotland was want of time. A petition had that night been laid on the table from the county of Fife, and one had likewise been presented from Montrose. More might be daily expected, if the door was not shut against them by the precipitate proceedings of the right hon. gentleman opposite. Not only the people of Scotland, but of the north of England, had yet been prevented from expressing their wishes to the legislature from want of time, and were now hastening to do so. The noble lord said, he had received a letter that morning, informing him that a petition was preparing at Leeds, and that a meeting was advertised at Litchfield for the same object. Would the chancellor of the exchequer press the measures he had in contemplation upon parliament on the day he had announced, when he was aware that the first vote passed in the committee of ways and means would render petitions from so many quarters ineffectual and nugatory? Formerly, the chancellor of the exchequer had not been so precipitate. Before he proposed the renewal of the property tax, he consulted with some agents at Liverpool, who were to sound the minds of the respectable merchants there, and attempt to reconcile them to his measures. The success of that canvass was not such as he expected, and did not encourage a second attempt of the same kind. The people there could not be prevailed upon, by any inducement he could offer, to express their cordial acqui eścence in his plans, and thought it better to get quit of the burthen of the property tax, than to curry favour with the chancellor of the exchequer. Mr. John Smith presented a petition from Nottingham, against the property tax. The petitioners also, he said, expressed their fears, that the vast standing army proposed to be kept up would prove dangerous to the liberties of the country. A great number of these petitioners were engaged in trade and manufactures; and he would say, that they were not among the persons described in the speech from the throne, as carrying on a flourishing commerce. He had only to add, that if any body of men in this country had been consistent friends of liberty, it was these petitioners; and that he coincided with them in the apprehensions which they entertained respecting it at the present mo ment. on the subdued tone of the opposite side of the House-he might go further, and even say, their absolute silence-and he thought he might venture to say, the measure would never be brought before the House. Still, however, the country ought not to relax in their exertions. After the petitions which they had heard from all descriptions of persons, he thought it impossible that ministers should persist in bringing forward the measure. But there was another reason against it which ought to operate with ministers. He was persuaded that if they persisted in the tax, they would not derive that revenue from it which they expected. And here he would mention an anecdote of rather a ludicrous description which he conceived to be not out of place on the present occasion. He believed the circumstance which he was going to state had actually taken place. A return was said to have been made to an assessor in the county of Cork, in Ireland, in this way" take notice, I have cut the throats of all my horses-I have shot all my dogs-I have burned all my carriages-I have shut up all my windows-I have dismissed all my servants, except my wife, and therefore I conceive that I cannot be liable to any assessment whatever." By persisting in this tax ministers would reduce many persons in the country to such a state of distress as effectually to set all tax-gatherers at defiance. Mr. Philips rose to express his surprise that none of the hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House had yet spoken in favour of the measure that government was pursuing. At an early period of the session the House was congratulated on the flourishing condition of the country, in its commerce, trade, and agriculture. The assertion, that we enjoyed so much prosperity, still remained uncontradicted by those who made it; but it did not remain so by the nation itself. The farmers and manufacturers had told pretty intelligibly what was their condition, and it was found to be the reverse of wealth and prosperity. The flourishing condition of our trade, as declared by our exports, had been somewhat moderated by the explanation of his hon. friend (Mr. Baring), who showed that there might be exportation without gain to the merchant, and that the amount of exports had arisen and he believed if it should be abanfrom the previous interruption of inter- doned, the chancellor of the exchequer course with America. When the esti- would have to propose worse taxes, not mates were talked of, it was said that there from any inclination, but because he could was no connexion between them and the not help it, as he had no other means property tax; and the chancellor of the within his power. He knew he was holdexchequer had insinuated, that if this taxing a very unpopular language. He bewas not agreed to, he must propose some other not less obnoxious. Was this proper language to hold to the country-"If you do not like the property tax, I will contrive some other that you may not like better." He had tried the experiment last year, and succeeded wonderfully; for there never was a system of taxation so odious and partial as that which he proposed to substitute for the property tax. Mr. Fremantle, though he hoped the people of this country would not relax in their exertions, and though he was of opinion, that the whole would depend on their exertions, could not but congratulate them Lord Compton declared, that he for one was rather friendly than otherwise to the property tax-[Hear, hear! and a laugh] lieved that though the county to which he belonged was hostile to the tax, yet his constituents, who were a pretty numerous body, were not hostile to it. In the town of Northampton, which contained 300 freeholders, there were only 28 who had petitioned against the tax. Mr. Ponsonby admired very much the noble lord's courage. He had in the most manly and dignified manner, put himself forward for his friends, at a time when no one of his friends durst say any thing for themselves. But still the noble lord was no very warm admirer of the tax; he expressed himself only rather friendly to it than otherwise. But this faint approval, he hoped, would not weigh with the House against the wishes of the country at large, though some of the noble lord's constituents should also be friendly to the measure. But would they send a petition to the House, praying that they might enjoy that tax rather than be subjected to some others out of that box of ills which the chancellor of the exchequer was to open on the country? The petitions were all ordered to lie on the table. BOARD OF TAXES.] Mr. Brougham rose to call the attention of the House to the novel and extraordinary return made by the board of taxes to an order of parliament. It was painful for him to make the observations which he was now called upon to do. Whatever respect he entertained for the commissioners of that board; however high in particular was his opinion of the respectable character of Mr. Lowndes, who was at the head of it, he could not help saying that they had committed a great indiscretion in their return. Whether a motion was made from one side of the House or the other; whether it was supported by a smaller or a greater proportion of the members; with whatever gentleman it originated; when it was carried, the order consequent upon it became the act of the House, and was to be obeyed as such. The previous proceedings, the sentiments of members who were for or against, were not to be taken into consideration by those whose conduct it was issued to direct. The board in this case had no right to make any retrospect -their duty was to obey the order made them, and to make a return according to the terms of it. The order, it would be recollected, was for a return of all the persons assessed to the income tax in London, the amount of the assessment, and the appeals against it, with the decision upon them. The answer returned to this order began by instructing the House how they should denominate the tax in question. It stated, that the commissioners knew of no income tax but one raised under an act that had expired in 1802. Did the House require the schooling of the board of taxes? Did it not know that the act alluded to had expired at the time specified? The board, however, proceeded to state, that they presumed that when the House mentioned the income professions, profits, trade, &c. Was not this, even upon their own showing, a tax upon income? Was not a tax upon the profits of trade a tax upon income? Was not a tax upon the revenue, derived from offices, a tax upon income-unless it could be said of offices what lord Arden had said of his sinecure," that it was his freehold?" But he would refrain from any further discus sion of the principles of the board, and would have pardoned their rather indecorous criticism of the order of House, had the return been made. This was not, however, the case. They had made no return, and gave as a reason for their conduct, that they did not find the accounts in their office, and had no connexion with them farther than was necessary for carrying into execution the provisions of the act. He could not too highly praise one part of their return, where they alluded to the oath that restrained them from making disclosures, and he wished that oath had been every where held equally obligatory. He contended, that if they did not find the accounts ordered in their office, they ought to have made inquiry after them at the proper offices. If there had been any necessity for those returns, with the design of increasing the tax, he had no doubt that they would have been forthcoming. The cause, however, of the failure of the order in procuring the necessary return lay with the treasury, who ought to have directed it to the proper officer. He had brought the subject before the House, that an explanation might be given of what could be considered in no other light than as a disrespect to the authority of parliament. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the order of the House had not been. sent to the treasury, but directly to the board of taxes; so that he had known nothing of the return before it had been made to the House. From the known merit of the officer to whom the order had been sent, he was convinced that no disrespect could have been intended to the House; but immediately on having seen the defective returns, he had given directions that a proper return should be made out by the officers who had the information in their power. At the same time he should remark, that the order had not been accurately worded. It required an account of the number of persons as sessed, which was impracticable, as per sons were assessed sometimes in two tax, it meant a tax levied upon property, places, and partnerships were assessed as be laid before the House, after which it would be his duty to bring in a bill to regulate the civil list. expenditure. one person. He should therefore move, "That there be laid before this House, an account of the number of assessments, in the city of London, granted by the Mr. Tierney said, that the conduct acts of 46 Geo. 3, c. 65, and of 55 Geo. of the minister in this case was such that 3, c. 53; and of the number of surcharges it was difficult to imagine any thing more upon the returns to such assessments for insulting to parliament. In the last sesthe year ending the 5th of April 1815, sion a bill had been brought in requiring and for the three quarters ending the 5th that the excess of the civil list in every of January 1816, distinguishing the num-year should be laid before the House on ber of appeals against such surcharges, and the number of cases in which such surcharges have been confirmed, or wholly or partly reversed, respectively, so far as the same can be made up.". Mr. Brougham said, that as a board of commissioners had presumed to enter into an altercation with the House, he should insist on the words "to the income tax" being inserted in the order, lest these commissioners should suppose that the House acquiesced in their criticism, and acknowledged the lesson well bestowed. Though this was of very little consequence in the order, it was of much importance as to the merits of the question. He should not, however, have insisted on this alteration, but for the altercation with these tax commissioners. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that he had no objection to the words proposed; it would be best, however to refer to the acts by which the contribution was granted. He also observed, that it would be well in these cases if the orders of the House on the subject of taxes were sent first to the treasury, whence they might be directed to the proper officers. The Speaker observed, that there was a standing order of the House by which all such orders were to be sent by the serjeant to the treasury. But from the order having fallen into the hands of some new messenger, or some other accident, it had happened otherwise in the present instance. The motion as amended was agreed to. CIVIL LIST.] Mr. Bennet wished to know whether there had been any excess on the civil list during the last year, because by law a return of the excess, if such there had been, should have been made to parliament on or before the 28th of February. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that there had been some excess in the expenditure of the civil list, and that the accounts were making out and would soon the 28th of February following, on the ground that the accounts being laid before the House late in the session, there was no time left to debate on them. The hon. member who brought in that bill (Mr. Bankes) must feel that his act had been entirely defeated, for now on the 28th of February, the chancellor of the exchequer being asked whether there had been any arrear, gave for answer, that the accounts of the excess were making out, and would soon be presented. The fact was, there had been an arrear which it was not convenient, at an early period of the session, to present to parliament. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that though there had been an excess on the civil list expenditure as regulated by act of parliament, there had not been an excess above the estimate presented last year. Mr. Tierney said, the estimate was no authority; he had objected to every item of it, as the most impudent proposition that had ever been made to parliament, and on the consideration of the House voting the sum required last session, that estimate was withdrawn. As to the excess, in whatever department it had occurred, he hoped the persons who had incurred the additional expense, would be left to pay it. The kindness of the House in paying the last debt on the civil list had not been received with common decency; for at the end of the session the speech. from the Crown had not even thanked the Commons for the 550,000l. advanced to pay the Prince Regent's debt, as if it were so much a matter of course, that whatever extravagance the Prince was to run into, the House was to pay, without even receiving thanks in return. Mr. Brougham wished to know what was the amount of this excess, or, if he might use the word, this extravagance of the persons in question had been? The Chancellor of the Exchequer could not take on himself from memory to give the exact amount, but it did not exceed the estimates of last year. The excess of the expenditure in the civil list had been inevitable, and had been sanctioned by parliament. ARMY ESTIMATES RESUMED DEBATE.] On the motion, "That the order of the day for resuming the adjourned debate upon the motion made upon Monday last, that the several estimates, relating to army services, which were presented to the House upon the 19th day of this instant February, by lord viscount Palmerston, and upon Thursday last by Mr. Peel, be referred to the committee, might be read," Mr. Baring suggested the impropriety of discussing, in the absence of the noble lord (Castlereagh), estimates which must entirely rest on statements which he had given; unless, therefore, gentlemen came to vote, and not to hear, they could not go into that question to-night. He had no wish to impede the public business, and the object of retarding the discussion of the property tax had already been effected. He had not many doubts on the subject they were about to discuss; but if he had any, they might be removed by the statements of the noble lord; it was only, therefore, on the score of common propriety that he should move that the debate be resumed to-morrow. Colonel Wood stated, that though he had left lord Castlereagh exceedingly unwell, yet his lordship had expressed a most anxious wish to give, if possible, any statement that could be desired, and that, unwell as he was, he would, if it were considered necessary, attend in the course of the evening. Mr. Tierney felt that the House was placed in an awkward situation. If the House persevered in moving an adjournment, the noble lord would be called down, however unwell; if they proceeded without him, they would debate at a great inconvenience; for the attendance of the minister was in the highest degree material, as the army estimates involved the consideration of all our foreign relations. It was very usual to postpone debates when ministers were ill; and though it might not be proper to delay the discussion for any length of time, yet, when so much might be gained by a pause of eight and forty hours, he must wish for an adjournment. The Chancellor of the Exchequer reminded the House of the motion that stood for to-morrow, and, after the statements that had been already received, did not think the attendance of the noble lord so absolutely necessary. Lord Folkestone said, that his hon. friend, the member for Essex, had no objection to postpone his motion which stood for to-morrow, and he thought it indecent to proceed in the absence of the noble lord. Mr. Law opposed any delay, and thought it inconsistent with the dignity of the House to defer a discussion on account of the absence of a single member. Lord Milton thought the House competent to discuss the question in the absence of the noble secretary, and was astonished that they could not proceed after all they had heard on the subject. Mr. Robinson observed, that the same difficulty would recur to-morrow should the noble lord continue indisposed. Mr. Tierney said, that if the noble lord could not attend to-morrow, the business ought not to be further delayed. Mr. Brougham thought it better to proceed, as the noble lord's attendance could not be ensured to-morrow, and recommended his hon. friend to withdraw his motion. Mr. Baring said, he would withdraw his motion, not because he had altered his opinion as to the necessity of the noble lord's presence, but because business pressed, and he did not wish to bring the noble lord down with inconvenience to himself. Mr. Tierney hoped that nothing that had passed would be thought for a moment to impose any necessity of attending on the part of the noble lord. The debate on the Army Estimates was then resumed. Mr. Knox then rose, and entered into a detail of the state of Ireland, which he contended, justified the amount of armed force which it was proposed to keep up in that country. Atrocious outrages were, he said, daily committed, and to withdraw the military force would be fatal to the loyal part of the population. The state of that country, and the feelings of the po pulation, were proved by the manner in which the news of the return of Buonaparté had been recieved. The effect was electric, and showed that the hopes of the disaffected were cherished by the expect ation of succour from France. That a peace with that country, however, was not sufficient to suppress the spirit of revolt, + |