not bear that political lessons should be overbearingly taught by us; they ought to transpire only through the wisdom of our councils. If we began to assume a dictatorial function towards other powers, we should become an object of deserved hatred. The mind of man could not devise a mode of interference more calculated utterly to ruin the unfortunate persons in whose behalf it was intended. On these and on all the grounds he had stated, he never found himself called upon to give a more decided negative to any motion than he did to the present.

Lord John Russell expressed his opinion, that this country was in justice and honour bound to interfere in behalf of the Spanish patriots, whose sufferings in a great measure arose from their connexion with, and friendship for this country. In answer to the charge of precipitancy which had been made against the present motion, he should only observe, that many months had elapsed since the patriotic members of the cortes had been visited with such signal vengeance. It was, he remarked, a fact generally understood, that at the present moment, there were in the prisons of Madrid 1,200 victims incarcerated, and 500 in those of Cadiz, suffering, for the most part, in consequence of their patriotism and attachment to us, their former allies. He had heard, for the first time, of the interference of government in the councils of Ferdinand, and he thought that when this interposition was backed by the opinion of parliament, the most salutary consequences would be the result. The duke of Wellington had on one occasion interfered for a meritorious and distinguished individual. He did not indeed require his release from persecution, but demanded his trial according to the laws of Spain; this request was complied with, and the party liberated. If similar applications were repeated, the same beneficial effects would doubtless be the consequence.

Alderman Christopher Smith, on the authority of letters, which he had received from the most respectable cha racters in Spain, expressed his conviction, that the people of this country were quite mistaken as to the state of affairs in that nation. There was not a more popular monarch in Europe, nor one to whom his subjects were more devotedly attached than Ferdinand. The alderman was of opinion, that the noble lord's statement proved that ministers had done all that it +

was possible to do, and that any attempt to urge them to further interposition must be attended with dangerous consequences. General Matthew declared, that it had not been his intention to address the House on this question, but he could not remain silent after listening to the doctrine of the hon. alderman. To judge by his language, he seemed to think that because ministers had interposed, those who sat on his side of the House ought not to be allowed to make any observations, or to open their mouths at all. But was it not true that Spain was labouring under the most shameful tyranny ever heard of in ancient or modern times? The hon. alderman's doctrine was not his own; he had taken it from the noble lord, now the political leader and idol of the other side; and in one respect he was glad of it, on account of his known sentiments of conciliation towards Ireland. That noble lord had on the first night of the session rebuked his hon. and distinguished friend (Mr. Brougham) for his animadversions on the conduct of that usurper and detestable monster, Ferdinand the seventh. But the noble lord had not been able to stop the mouth of his hon. friend, no, nor the mouths of others. Did they suppose that the noble lord, or any minister among them, could stop the mouth or change the sentiments of any on his side of the House. They might dictate to foreign kings, princes, and emperors, but they should not dictate to them who were free citizens, the representatives of the nation, and who were superior to all their corrupt machinations. That was the only assembly now in the world where kings and princes might learn what was thought of them; and he knew personally, that in every corner of the continent the reports of the proceedings in that House were sought after with the greatest avidity. The noble lord might tell them, if he pleased that enough had been done; but he was happy that the public voice was raised. against the iniquitous conduct of that iniquitous monster, Ferdinand of Spain. Would not every man who loved freedom be glad to see him hurled from his ill-gotten and blood-stained throne? Never, he trusted, would this country spill another drop of blood, or spend another shilling in his defence. No, we had been too long,duped; we had exalted our renown in arms and in diplomacy by the exertions of the noble lord on the continent; but what were the fruits ?

Little better than general bankruptcy and distress, as would be made more manifest on Monday se'nnight, when there was to be a call of the House, though he hoped some indulgence would be shown to his hon. countrymen, of whom many had actually no money to enable them to come over. In England the landlord contrived to obtain one-fourth of his rents, but in Ireland he could get nothing.

Mr. Bennet said, from the information he had received respecting the former government and cortes of Spain, he could deny that there was any hostility of the Liberales against this country. There might have been some points on which a difference of opinion prevailed, but there was no general hostility ever manifested on the part of that body. This information he relied on, it having been communicated to him by an officer from that country. Their co-operation with us in the campaign against the common enemy had been so material to the result, that we owed to them a debt of gratitude. He hoped that the House would take into their serious consideration the state of those unfortunate individuals now confined in dungeons, and associated with the lowest of society. The conduct pursued in Spain brought back to our view those times which the good and the enlightened now contemplated with horror. In respect to the interference of his Majesty's government, he hoped it might have done good, but any recommendation on their part was not likely to be strengthened by the orders which had been bestowed upon the Spanish monarch, because those honours might have induced him to suppose that his government would be supported by that of Great Britain. The hon. gentleman was also of opinion, that if interference, like that exercised by the duke of Wellington for his friend, had been resorted to on the behalf of the other sufferers, much amelioration for them might have been procured.

Mr. Brougham said, that in reply he should trouble the House with but a very few words. He was ready to admit, that he was taken by surprise in hearing the declaration of the noble lord, that this country had interfered, that his Majesty's government had instructed our minister at the court of Spain, in favour of those unfortunate individuals. How was it possible for him to divine this conduct of the government? The motion he now made had been put off from time to time, and (VOL. XXXII. )

yet the nobie lord had preserved a complete silence upon the subject, and it was not likely that he (Mr. Brougham) should imagine, that this silence was intended to signify that steps had been taken to accomplish that which was the object of the present motion. It appeared as if the noble lord had studiously preserved silence upon every occasion when this subject had been mentioned, with a view to entrap the motion before the House, and by surprise to give the information in a triumphant manner. But certainly the noble lord's triumph was greatly diminished, when we called to our recollection the proceedings which had taken place since the 14th of May 1814. Since that period these deputies and members of the regency were still in damp and darksome dungeons. For two months, until the 5th July at least, these miseries still accompanied them. On the 5th July a treaty of alliance had been made with the government of Spain, and although there was interference almost about every thing, yet there was no interference in behalf of these deputies and members of the regency. After this it was, that the garter was sent to decorate king Ferdinand. But down to last December, during a period of twenty months, nothing had been done; for instead of opening the doors of their dungeons and setting these unhappy men at liberty, the monarch of Spain ordered that they should be tried by a special commission, and then being displeased with the decision of these commissioners, he proceeded to try and punish them him self. With all these events before him, the hon. and learned gentleman said he might be excused for supposing that nothing had been done on the part of the government of this country. This was the first time he had been made acquainted with their conduct, and he had no doubt of the instructions given, and the conduct attributed to our minister, sir Henry Wellesley. At the same time, under all these circumstances, he was anxious to know at what period this interference had been made, for if it occurred before December last, it would then be clear that it had not had the desired effect, and he should still persist in the object of his motion. If the endeavour to relieve these sufferers had been made since December, he should be disposed to withdraw his motion, and to wait for the result. He should guide himself by the answer which the noble lord might return.

(2 R)

Mr. Wellesley Pole felt called upon to say a few words, in consequence of the declaration which had been made by the hon. and learned gentleman, that the course pursued by government with respect to Spain had been kept secret from parliament till his noble friend had now stated it, and as it were taken the House by surprise. It must be in the recollection of the House, that in the course of the last session, he (Mr. Pole) had more than once distinctly stated, in reply to observations made by an hon. member now no more (Mr. Whitbread), that from the moment sir Henry Wellesley had met the king of Spain at Valencia, he had left nothing untried to persuade him to accept the constitution and to treat the Liberales with mildness, and that the ministers had used every effort to induce the Spanish government to ameliorate the condition of the people. He was, therefore, surprised that the hon. and learned gentleman should have been ignorant of the course pursued; for although he had not a seat in the House last year, yet one would have thought it barely possible that his friends who sat around him should not have informed him of what had passed. The Liberales themselves were conscious that all that was possible had been attempted in their cause, and it was so notorious, both in Spain and in this country, that he was astonished the hon. and learned gentleman should not have informed himself of the fact before he had brought forward his motion. He would add that it was the opinion of sir Henry Wellesley, that the language used in this country, and the attempts made in this House to degrade king Ferdinand, were in a great measure the cause that the case of the Liberales had not been listened to as it would have been had he been left to himself. He also thought that our merchants and residents suffered materially from it. Not a post, said sir Henry Wellesley, arrived in Spain, without bringing papers full of inflammatory and abusive paragraphs against Ferdinand; in consequence of which our merchants and residents were greatly impeded and injured in their concerns. With respect to the motion, the hon. and learned gentleman might dispose of it according to his own pleasure; but he had that night received a lesson-[Cries of Order, order!]. He did not mean the expression in an offensive way, but the information he had received from his noble friend, would show

him that he ought to have considered what might have been done, before he made to the House a motion like the present.

Mr. Brougham hoped, that the right hon. gentleman would, in future, learn to express himself in words that would convey his real meaning, and not use a language implying sentiments contrary to his intentions. With respect to the lesson he was supposed to have learned, it was this, that his majesty's ministers had spent twenty months in useless interference. The only alteration that knowledge would have occasioned, had he possessed it before, would have been an increase of force in the wording of his motion.

Lord Castlereagh could not but repeat, that if the interposition of his majesty's ministers had not been attended with all the success that might have been wished, the intervention of the House, so far from doing good, might only produce ulterior mischief.

Mr. Tierney said, that if he thought the course of negociation which ministers were now pursuing was at all likely to produce a beneficial result, he should certainly advise his hon. and learned friend to withdraw his motion; but there appeared to be a disposition to force the House to a division, rather than to give that clear and necessary information which his hon. and learned friend had requested. He begged the House to consider, that the manner in which the Liberales had been treated seemed to have roused the same feelings of indignation in his majesty's ministers as had been expressed by gentlemen on that side of the House. If the government of England, and the three other great powers, had made representations which had not been attended to, then it was not too much to ask the noble lord, whether he did not want some assistance. It might be alleged that any further interference would be extremely improper; but if all the attempts of those great powers had proved entirely useless, then a fifth power, the commons of England, should not be deterred from expressing their opinions.

Lord Castlereagh saw that the right hon. gentleman had only risen to extricate his hon. and learned friend from the difficulties into which he had fallen; but he was fully convinced that the right hon. gentleman would greatly embarrass the attempts of ministers by supporting the present motion.

Mr. Tierney could not understand what