out any reference to the acknowledged merits of the present illustrious commander-in-chief, it was well known to be in the nature of things impossible, but that the possession of military patronage must be a source of great influence to government, who had therefore an interest in extending it in all its various depart

ments.

The second resolutions were then put and agreed to.

On the motion of Mr. Horner (acquiesced in by lord Castlereagh), an humble Address was ordered to be presented to the Prince Regent, praying that he would be pleased to order that there be laid before the House a copy of any agreement made with the allied powers respecting the proportion and nature of the force which is to form the army of occupation in France.

Sir James Mackintosh referring to the opinion yesterday expressed by the right hon. gentleman opposite, of the legality with which the contribution paid to this country by France might have been considered as droits of the Crown, wished to know whether the right hon. gentleman had founded that opinion on any consultation with the law officers of the Crown?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that under the circumstances of the case, he had not thought it necessary to require any legal opinion upon it.

Mr. Wynn inquired as to the amount of the contribution which had been actually paid?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that out of 700,000l. due, 500,000l. had been paid into our military chest at Paris. Mr. Wynn contended that the House ought to assert its control over this money.

Mr. Brougham pressed the question which had been put by his hon. and learned friend; namely, whether any legal adviser of the Crown had been consulted as to the liability of this money to the chatacter of droits of the Crown.

Lord Castlereagh deprecated the discussion of a question which could have no practical result. As to the appropriation which had actually taken place of this money, the House would have an opportunity of considering whether it had been proper or not. The Crown had only acted as trustee for the army which had fought under the duke of Wellington, and which consisted not of British troops alone, but of four other nations.

MOTION RESPECTING CERTAIN TRANSACTIONS BETWEEN THE PUBLIC AND THE BANK OF ENGLAND.] On the motion of Mr. Grenfell, the following Acts were entered as read; viz. 31 Geo. 3, c. 33, 39 and 40, c. 28, 46, c. 41, 48, c. 3, and 4, 55 c. 16. After which,

Mr. Grenfell rose and spoke as follows:*

Mr. Speaker;-Towards the close of the last session of parliament, I gave a notice that I should, at an early period in the present session, submit to the House a proposition founded on papers and documents which have been printed, and in the hands of members since the month of July last; having reference to certain transactions and agreements, subsisting betwixt the public and the bank of England. It is for the purpose of redeeming that pledge, Sir, that I have now the honour of addressing you. And if I was of opinion, when first I took the liberty of calling the attention of parliament to this subject, not only that it was more consistent with what might be due to the bank, and to our engagements subsisting with it, but that also with a view to the ultimate success of my own object, it was more expedient, that I should propose nothing, at that time, that should have any immediate operation upon these transactions or agreements; but, that I should strictly limit and confine myself, as I trust I have done, to an application to the House for such information-for such details, as appeared to me best calculated to enable both the House and myself to form and arrive at correct conclusions upon the whole of this important subject; if such, Sir, I say, were the sentiments which I entertained at that period, the opportunity that the recess of parliament has since afforded me, of examining into, and combining the information contained in that mass of papers now upon your table on this subject, has not only satisfied me of the propriety of that course of proceeding, but at the same time strengthened and confirmed the opinion I have entertained on this subject from the commencement-namely, that the terms and principles upon which these transactions have been for many years past, and are now carried on by the bank for the public, are in their nature extravagant, exorbitant, and therefore in their effect and ope

* From the original Edition printed. for John Murray, Albemarle Street.

ration injurious to the public interests. | And as we are now arrived at the eve of that period when all agreements, having reference to these transactions will expire -namely, on the 5th of April next :-if I should be so fortunate as to find the House concurring in the view I have presumed to take of this subject, I am confident they will feel it to be their duty to take care, that these transactions be conducted in future, upon such a footing, as shall be just towards the public, without being, in any measure, unjust towards the bank of England. It being the conviction of my mind and I entreat the House to believe, that I state what I am now about to do, not rashly, not vaguely, nor without the most anxious and repeated consideration, that the result of arrangements, founded on these just principles, must be to secure for the public a saving of public money, amounting to hundreds of thousands of pounds per annum, without doing any thing that could be construed by the most scrupulous into a breach of the public faith, without committing the slightest degree of injustice on the bank of England; but still giving to the bank, what I shall always wish to see it receive, an adequate, ample, liberal compensation and remuneration-proportioned, however, always to the nature and value of the service performed by the bank for such remuneration; and still leaving that great corporation what it now is, and what, as a member of that body myself, it must always be my interest, as it ever will, on public grounds, be my wish to see it, namely, the most wealthy and opulent, the most thriving and prosperous, the most profitable banking institution that now exists, or that ever has existed, in this or in any other part of the commercial world.

Before I enter, however, upon this subject, I wish to disclaim all intention of meddling, or interfering, with any of those transactions of the bank of England, which may purely and properly be considered as exclusively their own. With the private concerns and transactions of the bank, I presume, generally speaking, this House can have nothing to do, and, therefore, except under circumstances of a very peculiar nature indeed, never will meddle or interfere. But in all transactions in which the public are directly interested with the bank, in which the public are to be considered as one of the contracting parties, and the bank the other, -not only do I feel that we are compe

tent, but, if I know any thing of the prac tical functions of the House of Commons, it is our bounden duty, as the constitutional guardians of the public expenditure, to take care and satisfy ourselves and the public, that those transactions are conducted in such a manner, and on such terms and principles, as the public are entitled to, and have a right to expect. I am also desirous of stating-what, indeed, I håve stated upon a former occasionthat, in calling the attention of parliament and of the public to this subject, I am influenced by no motives of personal hostility towards the directors of the bank,

for whom, individually, I feel the respect that is due to their characters and stations: the hostility I feel, if such a term be applicable to my feelings, is one that I do not shrink from the avowal of it is hostility to a system, established, perhaps, not by the gentlemen who at present conduct the affairs of the bank, but, for any thing I know to the contrary, by their predecessors, but a system, by whomsoever established, or by whomsoever acted upon, which I oppose, and am in hostility to, because, in my conscience, I believe it to be a system hostile to the interests of the country. Neither have I been so inattentive an observer of what has passed within the circle of my own experience during the last thirty years, nor am I so ignorant of the principles upon which this great commercial country rests, as to be either insensible or indifferent to the many and important advantages which the public have long derived-which we now enjoy-and which, I trust, shall long continue to derive, from this our great national bank: nor am I, in any degree, desirous of limiting, curtailing, or abridging its fair legitimate profits; but, convinced as I am, from every consideration I have been able to give to this subject, that, in our transactions with the bank, particularly of late years, we have contributed towards those profits in a most undue and uncalled-for degree; to an extent, unwarranted either by the nature or value of the service performed by the bank: satisfied, too, that we may secure to ourselves a continuance of those, and indeed of all other advantages, which the bank is capable or susceptible of affording to us, without our being subjected to such immense pecuniary sacrifices as we have hitherto made for those services-such, I say, Sir, being the honest conviction of my mind, I trust the

t

House will do me the justice to believe, that in submitting this subject to their investigation, I am actuated by no motives but such as are of a public nature: that I am desirous, ambitious, if you please, (no blameable ambition, I hope) to accomplish, upon public grounds, an important saving of the public money. Whatever, then, the feelings of the directors of the bank may be, on this occasion; whatever motives, however erroneous and unfounded, may be imputed to me, I shall not shrink from the task I have undertaken; but, so long as I shall be conscious, as I now am, of the rectitude of my own intentions; and, above all, so long as I may receive from this House that forbearance and indulgence, of which I feel I stand so much in need, whenever I presume to address them, I shall persevere; satisfied that I stand on firm and tenable ground; that the cause I have undertaken is a good one; and that, under the favour and indulgence of this House, I cannot fail to bring it to a speedy and successful issue. Having detained the House, longer than perhaps I ought to have done, with these preliminary observations, I will now proceed at once to the discussion before me; and, in doing this, I shall endeavour to confine myself, principally to two branches, or heads of the public service, into which the subject seems naturally to class and arrange itself; to which the papers on your table mainly apply; and to which alone I look, as the sources of that public economy and retrenchment, which are the only objects I have in contemplation. The first of these two branches then will refer to the deposits of public monies lodged at the bank, acting, in this respect, as the bankers of the public; which monies (precisely as is the case with money deposited by individuals with their private bankers), are wholly unproductive to the public, but productive of advantage and profit to the bank to the extent, as I venture to contend, as was successfully contended by a committee of this House in the year 1807, and immediately afterwards, not only successfully but practically, contended by Mr. Perceval in the arrangements made by him with the bank in the year 1808; and, as I do not now expect to hear denied, even by the directors of the bank themselves, productive then, I say, to the extent of about five per eent. per annum upon their whole aggregate amounts; which aggregate amount, estimated upon an average fairly taken

during the last ten years, that is, from the year 1806 down to the present time, I state to have been abcut eleven millions and a half sterling. When I say from 1806 down to the present time, I beg to be understood, with reference to this and to every other part of the subject, where I may have occasion to use the same expression, as meaning, down to the latest period to which any account upon the subject has been laid before parliament; and all such accounts come down to a late period in the last session: what may have happened since that time I know not, nor would any variation in these accounts, which may since have taken place, either alter my view of the subject, or in any manner affect the argument I mean to hold upon it.

The second branch of the subject, to which I shall apply myself, will be the commission or charge paid by the public to the bank for the management of the public debt, amounting, upon the debt as it now stands, including the loan, and other financial operations of the last year, to an annual sum of about 275,000, to which must be added, a further charge paid to the bank of 800l. per million, upon the whole amount of every loan; and of 1000l. upon every lottery contract; which two items of charge, amounted in the last year to a sum exceeding 30,000l. and in the year preceding, that is, in 1814, to a sum exceeding 42,000l.

There are three other items of charge made by the bank against the public, of comparatively trifling amount, but upon which I shall wish to address a few short observations to the House:-the first is a sum of 4000l. per annum paid to the bank, from the original grant of its charter, under the denomination of "an allowance to the bank towards its House expenses." The second is a sum of 18987. per annum, charged for management on four millions of the public debt, purchased by the bank of the south sea company in 1722, and which now forms a part of the bank capital lent to the public at three per cent. The last item is a charge paid to the bank since 1806, as a commission of one eighth per cent. or half a crown in the hundred pounds, upon such portion of the property duty, as persons, assessed for trades, offices, or professions, voluntarily take to the bank, and deposit there, on its way into the exchequer. The several items just enumerated, and comprised under this second branch of the subject, form

There is, however, another part of this subject, another source of immense wealth and profit to the bank, to which in an inquiry of this kind, it is impossible that I should not advert, though I beg to be distinctly understood, as not meaning, at present, to propose, or even to recommend, any participation in those profits on the part of the public. What I allude to is, the immense increase in bank profits, arising out of the increased circulation of their paper, since the year 1797, and in consequence of an act which passed the legislature in that year, commonly known by the name of the "Bank Restriction Act;" an act, the title of which was, "An Act for restraining the bank of England from paying its obligations in cash;" but which, I confess, it has frequently occurred to me, would not have been inaptly intituled," An Act for relieving the bank of England from the necessity of paying its obligations in cash;"-and as this part of the subject does not necessarily connect itself with either of the other branches to which I have just referred, and as what I shall have to say upon it will be very short, perhaps I shall best consult the convenience of the House, as well as my own, if I dispose of it at once, and in this part of the discussion.

It appears then from papers which are on your table, that the circulation of bank of England paper, estimated upon an average of years prior to the restriction act, amounted to a sum fluctuating betwixt eleven and twelve millions. I am indeed aware, that at the period when this act passed, and for some time previously, the bank circulation was reduced considerably below this average; but as I do not wish to deceive myself or the House, by taking an exaggerated view of any part of this subject (for in truth, if I were so disposed, or capable of doing it, the case before me appears to me to require no exaggeration) I am willing to consider this as a depression arising out of temporary circumstances, and to take the average cir. culation prior to 1797, at the sum of eleven or twelve millions. Now, it appears, from papers which are also before us, that this circulation, as might indeed have been expected, has gone on gradually increasing ever since; till it reached, at one period in the last year (the year ending in June last) the sum of 31,300,000l. and the average of the whole of that year may

twenty-seven and twenty-eight millions. Here, then, the House will perceive, is an increase in the bank-paper circulation at present as compared with what it was prior to the passing of the restriction act, of no less a sum than sixteen millions, yielding of course a corresponding increase in the gross profits of the bank of 800,000l. per annum! Now, Sir, as I have before observed, it is not my intentention to propose any participation, on behalf of the public, in these enormous profits, in the present state of things. I say, in the present state of things; because, presuming to think as I do, that from the moment the restriction act passed, the public acquired an equitable claim upon the bank for a participation in the profits, which that act had created; and, that if we have hitherto abstained (as I think we have wisely done) from urging that claim, it has been from considerations of policy and expediency, and not from any question as to the rights of the public, with reference to such participation; holding this opinion, Sir, I have no difficulty in stating, that if this system, which has now gone on, without any interruption, during the last nineteen years, and which has been such an abundant source of wealth to the bank exclusively, should become the permanent system of our currency; nay, if its duration should be protracted, as from something that has lately passed, we have reason to expect, may be proposed to us, even for one year beyond the 5th of July next, to which this system by the law now in force is limited; in such an event, I trust some member of this House of more weight and authority and more competent to the undertaking than myself, will come forward, and offer us a proposition, the object of which will be, in some way or other, to give to the public a participation in these profits in future. At present, however, I have nothing of that kind to propose to you; and I have referred to the subject chiefly for the purpose of bringing under the notice of the House the two following facts :first, that the bank are now deriving an increase in their profits, from the circulation of their paper, as compared with those profits before the restriction act passed, at the rate of 800,000l. annually; and secondly, that they are indebted for these increased profits, in a great measure (I will not say altogether, because the increased trade and circulation of the coun