effort at all had been made for recovering | our just debts from Austria. He had heard nothing to convince him of the propriety of not pressing for those sums at present. Earl Bathurst argued, that it had never been thought politic to bring forward our claims upon Austria in the various arrangements that had been made with her. Subsidies had been advanced to her at various times since the loan, and had the different administrations which did this contemplated repayment, they should have, at such times, given notice of their intention in future. The administration to which Mr. Fox belonged had paid a sum of half a million to Austria, which she claimed as a right, not as a favour: and as the loan to Austria was not then mentioned as a set-off, the country seemed to be precluded, in point of equity, from pressing their claim. With respect to the case of British creditors, he would go further than his noble friend had done, and say that the objections now made upon that subject, ought to have been made, not last year, but the year before; for the arrangement in question took place in the treaty concluded in May 1814. That treaty, however, had been submitted to parliament, and received its unanimous sanction, and surely when we gave the British creditors reason to expect they would be paid pursuant to the stipulations of that treaty, we were bound to secure them in any treaty we might afterwards conclude. The Marquis of Lansdowne denied that this was a motion for censure; it was merely for laying a ground for further discussion. The noble earl who spoke last had contended that this country was precluded from pressing her claims upon Austria by advances which she had made at various times since the loans. This was to argue as if, when a merchant was called in to the assistance of a friend in pecuniary embarrassment, he was debarred, by the temporary assistance he might afford, from setting up his just claims when that friend was restored to prosperity. Austria had been restored to prosperity, partly by our efforts and assistance; and our forbearance at the period of her adversity was not to be urged as a just bar to our claims. But, at any rate, this particular period should be chosen as that in which the transactions between the two countries should be formally closed. A recognition was at least due from Austria that she had incurred such a debt. If we had agreed to abandon it, it should have appeared on the face of the negociations that we had done so in the exercise of our discretion, or in return for adequate advantages. There should have been some specific act recording that this country had agreed to relinquish its claims. However extravagant it was to pay 500,000l. to Russia for her fleet, and to pay the Brunswickers and Hanoverians their extraordinary expenses, for which they had no claim, there were at least specific acts for these measures, and the same should have been done in this case. After the large loan of seven millions had been given to Austria; after all the assurances given at the time of its repayment; and when the parliament was told that she might be prosecuted for it even in her own courts, was it not strange that the account should be treated as closed, without a single syllable being said on the subject? If it was right to forego the claim, it was right also to give up the securities, consisting in actions of the bank of Vienna, which were still, he believed, deposited with the bank of England. The guarantee of the British creditors in the French funds, adverted to by his noble friend, formed a very important question of policy. It was to be considered, that in proportion to the distress of France, she would be compelled to offer a higher bonus. This would be a reason for our monied men to take their property from our own funds, and transfer them to those of France. Was it just or politic to support such proceedings as these by the guaranty of this country? The noble marquis expressed his concurrence in the motion of his noble friend, and concluded by hoping that ministers would not deny to the House the information they sought for. The motion was then put, and negatived without a division. others, inhabitants of the city of Oxford, against the property tax, begged leave to call the attention of the House to what those petitioners assigned as the cause of their present distress. That cause, they stated to be, the universal depression of the agricultural interest. This was a subject of paramount importance. He knew that many of the inhabitants of Oxford could not pay the tax, without utterly ruining themselves, because their trade had been very much affected by the impaired state of the agricultural interest, from which they had previously derived their support. He could hardly have conceived that the distress amongst the agriculturalists was so great, if he had not witnessed it himself. It was a melancholy prospect, for those who had been in the habit of viewing rural economy and industry in all its branches, to see young and healthy people thrown out of employment, and obliged to receive aid from those funds which were intended for the aged and infirm. In such a situation of affairs, the property tax, if renewed, could not be productive; and therefore it was necessary that some other resource should be applied to. It had been suggested, that the chancellor of the exchequer might procure a loan from the stock exchange; but this he declined, because he thought it would be the means of raising the stocks. He (Mr. W.) conceived, that the suggestion of Mr. Fox, in 1786, which was adopted by Mr. Pitt, might be resorted to. He alluded to the propriety of drawing on the sinking fund, in aid of any loan that might be deemed necessary. There was also another mode by which the exigencies of the times might be met. That mode was, by ministers redeeming the pledge of economy which they had given to the House at the commencement of the session-by their adopting, in every department of government, the most scrupulous economy. In conclusion, the hon. gentleman called on parliament to relieve the agricultural interest, before it was too late. Mr. Lockhart said, it was unnecessary for him to add to that true and touching picture of distress, which was to be found in this petition. He entertained the most earnest anxiety, that parliament should concur in every measure necessary for the relief of the agriculturalists. He agreed with the hon. gentleman in the observation he had made, that it was imperative on the legislature to assist that body, while it was (VOL. XXXII. ) If relief yet susceptible of assistance. were delayed much longer, none could be afforded that would be effectual. This ought to be the more deeply impressed on the minds of gentlemen, when they ob served, that, in the petition then before them, it was truly stated by the tradesmen on whose behalf it was presented, that their distress was primarily occasioned by the distresses which at present overwhelmed the agricultural interest. Another observation of the hon. gentleman, in which he perfectly agreed, was, the necessity of a system of the strictest economy being adopted by his majesty's ministers. He would oppose every measure that was not marked by economy. Of his views, on this point, he had given the stronget pledge to his constituents, in the vote he had given two nights ago in that House a vote which, however painful to himself, an imperious sense of duty demanded. Mr. Grenfell expressed his opinion, that, if proper retrenchments were made in every department of government, particu larly in the military department, it would be quite unnecessary to continue that odious burthen, the property tax; which, al though exceedingly partial and oppressive in its operation, was, in a constitutional point of view, still more objectionable. He hoped that retrenchment, in the general service of the country, would render it unnecessary even to raise a loan from the public. But, if a loan should be called for, it would, in his opinion, be expedient, in the highest degree, to avail ourselves of the clause, commonly called Mr. Fox's clause, in the bill of 1786, and to take from the sinking fund the sum that was wanted. If a different course were pursued, the effect would merely be, to put into the pocket of the loan contractor, that profit which, under a different system, would amount to a considerable saving to the public. The property tax was so odious in its nature, that, under no modifications whatever ought it to be resorted to at a period of peace. It was not merely objectionable on account of its burthensome nature, but because its operation was so repugnant to every principle of civil liberty, that no country deserved to be called free which submitted to it. He alluded particularly to its inquisitorial power, which had been exercised in a way most oppressive and injurious to the public; not by the commissioners who performed their duties gratis-but by the commissioners for the af fairs of taxes in Somerset place. It was (3 X) by Mr. Hammersley deprecated any interference with the sinking fund. On this point, he would remind the House of the last speech delivered by king William, one of the wisest and most powerful monarchs that ever reigned over this country, from the throne. In that speech, he had said"I cannot but press you to take of the "public credit, which cannot be preserved "but by keeping sacred that maxim, that "they shall never be losers who trust to a "parliamentary security." These were almost the last words of king William, and they ought not to be forgotten by that House. With respect to the property tax, he entirely agreed in the sentiments of the hon. gentleman who had last spoken. He considered the distress of the country to have been occasioned, in a great measure, by that detestable and shameful tax. It ought to be recollected, that parliament was pledged to put an end to this tax, when peace was concluded. That was one great reason for not renewing it. But there was another still greater-the consequences produced by this abominable measure. While that tax lasted, there was, in fact, no British constitution. This had been said, a few nights before, by a distinguished member of that House (Mr. Coke) -who, if he had not devoted himself entirely to the interests of the people, might have been now sitting with the greatest peers of the land-and he agreed entirely * See king William's last speech to his parliament. New Parl. History, vol. 5, P, 1330. in the truth of the sentiment, which, coming from such a quarter, ought to make a deep impression on the House. Mr. Ponsonby did not rise for the purpose of entering into any discussion as to the mode that should be adopted for meeting those expenses which the state of the country demanded. He wished merely to observe, that every gentleman had condemned, in his own name, and in the name of his constituents, that detestable measure, the income tax-and every part of the country was responsive to the feeling thus expressed. His hon. friend who spoke last condemned any appropriation of the sinking fund to the service of the country. He meant not to argue on the propriety or impropriety of such a measure; but he would call the attention of the House to the only true point connected with this subject-the reduction of expense in every department of government. Every thing else was quackery, delusion, falsehood, and imposition on the people. Reduction of expenditure in all the public departments, and above all in that department in which it was most practicable, the military establishments, was the only genuine mode of saving the country; and if his majesty's ministers were not disposed to adopt that mode, he trusted the House and the country would compel them to do So. Mr. Bennet observed, that this was the second evening on which he had missed the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer from his place in that House. This conduct he looked 'on as a deliberate slight to the House. Mr. Pitt, in the plenitude of his power, had never treated the commons of Great Britain in that disrespectful manner. There were other ministers, who likewise absented themselves; but surely the House was not to be deserted by the officers of the Crown, because the question of our great military establishment was not to come on that night. Mr. Goulburn rose to express his firm opinion that the absence of his majesty's ministers did not arise from the slightest intentional disrespect. With respect to the noble lord, the secretary of state for the foreign department, the House was well aware that indisposition prevented his attendance. To his knowledge the right hon. the chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Bathurst) had been confined to his bed for some days. The right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer he had brought forward, he was fully prepared to meet the hon. and learned gentleman, and to combat his arguments to the best of his humble ability. not had the pleasure of seeing that day, and therefore he could say nothing at all about him. But he trusted that his own ignorance with respect to the cause of the absence of the right hon. gentleman would not be urged as an argument to prove that he was intentionally disrespectful towards the House. The right hon. the master of the mint (Mr. W. Pole), was, he knew, indisposed some days ago. He was not aware if he had since recovered, but he was sure that he might say with confidence of that right hon. gentleman, as well as of the rest, that nothing could be further from his intention than to do any thing that might justly be deemed a slight and indignity to the House. Lord Ebrington said, that a report had that day reached him, from a distant part of the country, that the intention of ministers to abandon the property tax, was very prevalent. The letter which contained this statement, set forth, that the idea of the tax being abandoned, took its rise from a paragraph which had appeared in a newspaper remarkable for its support of ministers. He did not like the circulation of such rumours, which were set afloat for sinister purposes; ministers knew too well their duty to the Commons of England, not to state their intention of giving up the tax, if such an intention existed. But it appeared from the ob This last, that nothing was farther from their Mr. Brougham was sorry to understand that so much illness prevailed among the members of his majesty's government. Were they really ill, or was their indispo-servation of the hon. gentleman who spoke sition an indisposition to come down to the House? Perhaps they were sick of the property tax. He wished it might be so. Unquestionably there had been two or three hours of every evening for some days past in which the air of that House could not have been very salutary to persons in the state in which his majesty's government were; and no doubt their symptoms had been much aggravated by the numerous little speeches which had been made, even by those hon. gentlemen who had been most tenaciously their friends. If the influenza which raged on this subject did but spread, as he imagined it would, it might at last, perhaps, seize on the minds of his majesty's ministers themselves, and at length induce them to give up that of which the whole empire, from one extremity to the other, resounded with the reprobation. Mr. Lushington informed the hon. and learned gentleman and the House, that his right hon. friend the chancellor of the exchequer had been so much indisposed for the last two days, that it was with some difficulty he had been able to attend. With reference to the hope of the hon. and learned gentleman, that what he called the influenza would extend to his majesty's ministers, he had only to say, that, under all the circumstances of the case, his right hon. friend continued to think the renewal of the property tax (reduced and modified as he had stated) the wisest and the most justifiable measure to which the country could have recourse. In that opinion he completely concurred, and whenever the subject should be Sir John Owen hoped, that the general expression of popular feeling against this tax, which was heard in every part of the country, would produce a proper effect on his majesty's ministers, and induce them to abandon the measure. The great body of the country was completely hostile to the tax, for the best possible reason-if it were renewed, they were quite unable to pay it. The agricultural distress throughout the country was most appalling, and in no part of the kingdom was it greater than in the county (Pembroke) which he had the honour to represent. If effectual relief were not granted, the nature of the people of this country would be changed-and, instead of a hardy and virtuous body of peasantry, the kingdom would be filled with paupers. He had seen numerous labourers who were ready to support their families by the exertions of honest industry, if they could get employment; but, being disappointed in that expectation, from the inability of the farmers to employ them, they were obliged to apply to their respective parishes for relief. A sort of threat had been held out, that, if the House did not |