Mr. Gerry is afraid the people will be alarmed, as savoring of despotism.

Mr. Madison. The people's opinions cannot be known, as to the particular modifications which may be necessary in the new government-In general they believe there is something wrong in the present system that requires amendment; and he could wish to make the republican system the basis of the change-because if our amendments should fail of securing their happiness, they will despair it can be done in this way, and incline to monarchy.

Mr. Gerry could not be governed by the prejudices of the people-Their good sense will ever have its weight. Perhaps a limited monarchy would be the best government, if we could organize it by creating a house of peers; but that cannot be done.

The question was put on the three year's amendment and carried-7 ayes-4 noes. New-York in the affirmative.

On motion to expunge the clause of the qualification as to age, it was carried, 10 states against one.

On the question for fixed stipends, without augmentation or diminution, to this branch of the legislature, it was moved that the words, to be paid by the national treasury, be added-Carried, 8 states for-3 against. NewYork in the negative.

The question was then put on the clause as amended, and carried, 8 ayes-3 noes. New-York in the nega

tive.

On the clause respecting the ineligibility to any other office, it was moved that the words, by any particular state, be expunged. 4 states for-5 against, and 2 divided. New-York affirmative.

The question was then put on the whole clause, and carried, 10 ayes-1 no.

The last blank was filled up with one year, and carried —8 ayes—2 noes, 1 divided.

Mr. Pinkney moved to expunge the clause. Agreed to,

nem. con.

The question to fill up the blank with 30 years. Agreed to--7 states for-4 against.

It was moved to fill the blank, as to the duration, with seven years.

Mr. Pierce moved to have it for three years-instanced the danger of too long a continuance, from the evils arising in the British parliaments from their septenual duration, and the clamors against it in that country by its real friends.

Mr. Sherman was against the 7 years, because if they are bad men it is too long, and if good they may be again elected.

Mr. Madison was for 7 years-Considers this branch as a check on the democracy-It cannot therefore be made too strong.

For the motion, 8 ayes-1 no-2 states divided. NewYork one of the last.

Mr. Butler moved to expunge the clause of the stipends. Lost against-3 for-1 divided.

Agreed that the second branch of the national legislature be paid in the same way as the first branch.

Upon the subject of ineligibility, it was agreed that the same rule should apply as to the first branch. 6th resolve agreed to be postponed, sine die. 9th resolve taken into consideration, but postponed to to-morrow. Then adjourned to to-morrow morning.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 13th, 1787.

Met pursuant to adjournment. Present 11 states. Gov. Randolph observed the difficulty in establishing the powers of the judiciary-the object however at present is to establish this principle, to wit, the security of

foreigners where treaties are in their favor, and to preserve the harmony of states and that of the citizens thereof. This being once established, it will be the business of a sub-committee to detail it; and therefore moved to obliterate such parts of the resolve so as only to establish the principle, to wit, that the jurisdiction of the national judiciary shall extend to all cases of national revenue, impeachment of national officers, and questions which involve the national peace or harmony. Agreed to unanimously. It was further agreed, that the judiciary be paid out of the national treasury.

Mr. Pinkney moved that the judiciary be appointed by the national legislature.

Mr. Madison is of opinion that the second branch of the legislature ought to appoint the judiciary, which the convention agreed to.

Mr. Gerry moved that the first branch shall have the only right of originating bills to supply the treasury.

Mr. Butler against the motion. We are constantly running away with the idea of the excellence of the British parliament, and with or without reason copying from them; when in fact there is no similitude in our situations. With us both houses are appointed by the people, and both ought to be equally trusted.

Mr.Gerry. If we dislike the British government for the oppressive measures by them carried on against us, yet he hoped we would not be so far prejudiced as to make ours in every thing opposite to theirs.

Mr. Madison's question carried.

The committee having now gone through the whole of the propositions from Virginia-Resolved, That the committee do report to the convention their proceedings— This was accordingly done. [See a copy of it hereunto annexed.]

The house resolved on the report being read, that the

consideration thereof be postponed to to-morrow, and that members have leave to take copies thereof. Adjourned to to-morrow morning.

THURSDAY, JUNE 14th, 1787.

Met pursuant to adjournment. Present 11 states. Mr. Patterson moved that the further consideration of the report be postponed until to-morrow, as he intended to give in principles to form a federal system of government materially different from the system now under consideration. Postponement agreed to. Adjourned until to-morrow morning.

FRIDAY, JUNE 15th, 1787.

Met pursuant to adjournment. Present 11 states. Mr. Patterson, pursuant to his intentions as mention ed yesterday, read a set of resolves as the basis of amendment to the confederation. [See those resolves annexed.]

He observed that no government could be energetic on paper only, which was no more than straw-that the remark applied to the one as well as to the other system, and is therefore of opinion that there must be a small standing force to give every government weight.

Mr. Madison moved for the report of the committee, and the question may then come on whether the convention will postpone it in order to take into consideration the system now offered.

Mr. Lansing is of opinion that the two systems are fairly contrasted. The one now offered is on the basis of amending the federal government, and the other to be reported as a national government, on propositions which exclude the propriety of amendment. Considering therefore its importance, and that justice may be done to its weighty consideration, he is for postponing it a day.

Col. Hamilton cannot say he is in sentiment with either plan-supposes both might again be considered as

Q

federal plans, and by this means they will be fairly in committee, and be contrasted so as to make a comparative estimate of the two.

Thereupon it was agreed, that the report be postponed, and that the house will resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to take into consideration both propositions tomorrow. Then the convention adjourned to to-morrow morning.

SATURDAY, JUNE 16, 1787.

Met pursuant to adjournment. Present 11 states. Mr. Lansing moved to have the first article of the last plan of government read; which being done, he observed, that this system is fairly contrasted with the one ready to be reported-the one federal, and the other national. In the first, the powers are exercised as flowing from the respective state governments-The second, deriving its authority from the people of the respective stateswhich latter must ultimately destroy or annihilate the state governinents. To determine the powers on these grand objects with which we are invested, let us recur to the credentials of the respective states, and see what the views were of those who sent us. The language is there expressive-it is, upon the revision of the present confederation, to alter and amend such parts as may appear defective, so as to give additional strength to the union. And he would venture to assert, that had the legislature of the state of New-York, apprehended that their powers would have been construed to extend to the formation of a national government, to the extinguishment of their independency, no delegates would have here appeared on the part of that state. This sentiment must have had its weight on a former occasion, even in this house; for when the second resolution of Virginia, which declared, in substance, that a federal government could not be amended for the good of the whole, the remark of an ho