when unrepresented; and what is worse, without the prospect of redress. But it is said that this national government is to act on individuals and not on states; and cannot a federal government be so framed as to operate in the same way? It surely may. I therefore de lare, that I will never consent to the present system. and I shall make all the interest against it in the state which I represent that I can. Myself or my state will never submit to tyranny or despotisın. Upon the whole, every sovereign state according to a confederation must have an equal vote, or there is an end to liberty. As long therefore as state distinctions are held up, this rule must invariably apply; and if a consolidated national government must take place, then state distinctions must cease, or the states must be equalized. Mr.Wilson was in favor of the resolve. He observed that a majority, nay even a minority, of the states have a right to confederate with each other, and the rest may do as they please. He considered numbers as the best criterion to determine representation. Every citizen of one state possesses the same rights with the citizen of another. Let us see how this rule will apply to the present question. Pennsylvania, from its numbers, has a right to 12 votes, when on the same principle New-Jersey is entitled to 5 votes. Shall New-Jersey have the same right or influence in the councils of the nation with Pennsylvania? I say no. It is unjust-I never will confederate on this plan. The gentleman from New-Jersey is candid in declaring his opinion-I commend him for it-I am equally so. I say again I never will confederate on his principles. If no state will part with any of its sovereignty, it is in vain to talk of a national gov ernment. The state who has five times the number of inhabitants ought, nay must have the same proportion of weight in the representation. If there was a probability Р of equalizing the states, he would be for it. But we have no such power. If however, we depart from the principle of representation in proportion to numbers, we will lose the object of our meeting. The question postponed for farther consideration: MONDAY, JUNE 11th, 1787. Met pursuant to adjournment. Present 11 states. Mr. Sherman moved that the first branch of the national legislature be chosen in proportion to the number of the whole inhabitants in each state. He observed that as the people ought to have the election of one of the branches of the legislature, the legislature of each state ought to have the election of the second branch, in order to preserve the state sovereignty; and that each state ought in this branch to have one vote. Gov. Rutledge moved as an amendment of the first proposition, that the proportion of representation ought to be according to and in proportion to the contribution of each state. Mr. Butler supported the motion, by observing that money is strength; and every state ought to have its weight in the national council in proportion to the quantity it possesses. He further observed, that when a boy he read this as one of the remarks of Julius Cæsar, who declared if he had but money he would find soldiers, and every thing necessary to carry on a war. Mr. King observed, that it would be better first to establish a principle (that is to say) whether we will depart from federal grounds in forming a national government; and therefore, to bring this point to view, he moved as a previous question, that the sense of the committee be taken on the following question: That the right of suffrage in the first branch of the national legislature, ought not to be according to the rule in the articles of confederation, but according to some equitable ratio of representation. Gov. Franklin's written remarks on this point were read by Mr. Wilson. In these Gov. Franklin observes, that representation ought to be in proportion to the importance of numbers or wealth in each statethat there can be no danger of undue influence of the the greater against the lesser states. This was the apprehension of Scotland when the union with England was proposed, when in parliament they were allowed only 16 peers and 45 commons; yet experience has proved that their liberties and influence were in no danger. The question on Mr. King's motion was carried in the affirmative-7 ayes-3 noes, and Maryland dividedNew-York, New-Jersey and Delaware in the negative. Mr. Dickinson moved as an amendment, to add the words, according to the taxes and contributions of each state actually collected and paid into the national treasury. Mr. Butler was of opinion that the national government will only have the right of making and collecting the taxes, but that the states individually must lay their own taxes. Mr. Wilson was of opinion, and therefore moved, that the mode of representation of each of the states ought to be from the number of its free inhabitants, and of every other description three fifths to one free inhabitant. He supposed that the impost will not be the only revenue-the post office he supposes would be another substantial source of revenue. He observed further, that this mode had already received the approbation of eleven states in their acquiescence to the quota made by congress. He admitted that this resolve would require further restrictions, for where numbers determined the representation a census at different periods of 5, 7 or 10 years, ought to be taken. Mr. Gerry. The idea of property ought not to be the rule of representation. Blacks are property, and are used to the southward as horses and cattle to the northward; and why should their representation be increased to the southward on account of the number of slaves, than horses or oxen to the north? M. Madison was of opinion at present, to fix the standard of representation, and let the detail be the business of a sub-committee. Mr. Rutledge's motion was postponed. Mr. Wilson's motion was then put, and carried by 9 states against 2. New York in the majority. Mr. Wilson then moved, as an amendment to Mr. Sherman's motion, That the same proportion be observed in the election of the second branch as the first. The question however was first put on Mr. Sherman's motion, and lost-6 states against, and 5 for it. Then Mr. Wilson's motion was put and carried-6 ayes, 5 noes. The eleventh resolve was then taken into consideration. Mr. Madison moved to add after the word junctions, the words, or separation. Mr. Read against the resolve in toto. We must put away state governments, and we will then remove all cause of jealousy. The guarantee will confirm the assumed rights of several states to lands which do belong to the confederation. Mr. Madison moved an amendment, to add to or alter the resolution as follows: The republican constitutions and the existin glaws of each state, to be guaranteed by the United States. Mr. Randolph was for the present amendment, because a republican government must be the basis of our national union; and no state in it ought to have it in their power to change its government into a monarchy.— Agreed to 15th Resolve-the first part agreed to. 14th Resolve-taken into consideration. Mr. Williamson. This resolve will be unnecessary, as the union will become the law of the land. Governor Randolph. He supposes it to be absolutely necessary. Not a state government, but its officers will infringe on the rights of the national government. If the state judges are not sworn to the observance of the new government, will they not judicially determine in favor of their state laws? We are erecting a supreme national government; ought it not to be supported, and can we give it too many sinews? Mr. Gerry rather supposes that the national legislators ought to be sworn to preserve the state constitutions, as they will run the greatest risk to be annihilated-and therefore moved it. For Mr. Gerry's amendment, 7 ayes, 4 noes. Main question then put on the clause or resolve-6 ayes, 5 noes. New-York in the negative. Adjourned to to-morrow morning. TUESDAY, JUNE 12th, 1787. Met pursuant to adjournment. Present 11 states. The 15th or last resolve was taken into consideration. No debate arose on it, and the question was put and carried-5 states for it, 3 against, and 2 divided. NewYork in the negative. Having thus gone through with the resolves, it was found necessary to take up such parts of the preceding resolves as had been postponed, or not agreed to. The remaining part of the 4th resolve was taken into consideration. Mr. Sherman moved that the blank of the duration of the first branch of the national legislature, be filled with one year. Mr. Rutledge with two years, and Mr. Jenifer with three years. Mr. Madison was for the last amendment-observing that it will give it stability, and induce gentlemen of the first weight to engage in it. |