tions that you wrote down. Had one of these situations been taken to the appeal board, in my opinion there might have been a question raised as to the appeal board. If it were constituted of the same personnel as the allotment board, the question would be immediately raised as to whether or not they were disqualified because of previous connection with the argument.

Mr. COBB. If it involved anything beyond a matter of calculation. In other words, if it did involve decision, then it might be necessary to set up some other group to pass on that particular thing. That would relieve them of responsibility.

Mr. KLEBERG. Do you have any power now in a case which might arise involving a question of disqualification of the allotment board to sit in appeal on a question? Would you have the power under the present law to set up a court to take the place of that appeal board? The court could decide any question which might disqualify the appeal board, inasmuch as the question was based on the action of the original allotment board.

Mr. COBB. I would assume, Mr. Kleberg, we would have the same right to do that that we would have to set up the appeal board in the first instance.

Mr. KLEBERG. That is exactly the point; and why not, in the regulations, call attention to that at this time?

Mr. COBB. I think that would be highly desirable.

Mr. KLEBERG. That is exactly the thing I want to call to your

attention.

Mr. COBB. I think that would be highly desirable; that in case we would have a question of that character we will find some answer outside of this.

The CHAIRMAN. Just on the point raised by Mr. Kleberg, I understood Mr. Gaston just now to say that the appeal would be decided wholly on the record. I understood you to say there would be hearings.

Mr. COBB. There will be. No; he did not say it quite that way. Mr. GASTON. No; the mathematical computations that they perform are on the record. The record is open for appeal.

The CHAIRMAN. The record is open for appeal, and the appeal boards will not hear any witness, then?

Mr. COBB. Yes.

Mr. GASTON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. They will hear witnesses?
Mr. GASTON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. My cotton section is between 700 and 800 miles from the Texas A. & M. College. That section is nearer six different State agricultural and mechanical colleges than it is to our own State agricultural and mechanical college. Some of the cotton in my section is 800 miles, by rail, to the Texas A. & M. College. The nearest point in it is about 600 miles.

Mr. COBB. Consideration has already been given to that.

The CHAIRMAN. It is utterly impossible for the average farmer to have a hearing, and if you allow some of them to be heard certainly arrangements ought to be made, if possible, where any man would have the same privilege.

Mr. COBB. Consideration has been given to the plan of having this State board of appeals sit in various sections to hear appeals. For instance, the board which sits in your territory first, Mr. Kleberg, because that is where the problems will arise first, and because the cotton is planted there first, and then, would sit elsewhere as the cotton season marches across the belt. It would be the plan to have the board sit in the various territories in order to meet the very situation you raise there.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Doxey wanted to ask one more question, and then Mr. Gilchrist.

Mr. DOXEY. I will not prolong this appeal board discussion, but in talking to us about the two-bale exemptions, did I understand you to say you felt that your department now has authority to make all these desirable changes without any legislation?

Mr. COBB. That is our feeling.

Mr. DOXEY. We agree on some desirable changes, and we agreed, you might say, or have you agreed on the two-bale exemptions? Mr. COBB. Yes, sir; and we are setting aside cotton to take care

of that.

Mr. DoXEY. Under what authority of the Bankhead bill, as it is written, are you able to do that? There is a doubt in my mind about your authority to do the thing we agree should be done.

Mr. COBB. I will have to ask Mr. Hiss to answer you that question.

STATEMENT BY ALGER HISS, OF THE SOLICITOR'S DEPARTMENT, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

Mr. Hiss. Mr. Doxey, as Mr. Cobb said, that is a point that has not been finally determined yet. If by any chance it should be finally determined that it cannot be done without legislation, then it will be necessary to take care of that by legislation. If it is possible to do it-and we have every hope it will be possible to do itby administrative action, it would be under section 7 (a) (3) of the Bankhead Act, which permits the apportionment of the 90 percent upon such basis as the Secretary of Agriculture deems fair and just, and will apply to all farms to which the allotment is made under this paragraph uniformly within the county, on the basis or classification adopted, and it is our hope that we can say legally that a provision that every farm shall have an exemption of two bales will make it uniform. As to those that produce more than two bales, you will have further provisions. As to those that produce only two bales, they will come under this uniform exemption.

Mr. DoXEY. You are satisfied you are able to do that and that it will give you enough cotton to do it?

Mr. Hiss. I think if that is done Mr. Cobb's section feels confident there is enough cotton under the general over-all allotment to take care of those situations this year.

Mr. DOXEY. We will not go into the statistics, but what I want to do is to understand the general plan. Supposing you find you cannot do it in 90 days from now?

Mr. Hiss. We will find out a lot sooner than 90 days from now, Mr. Doxey.

Mr. DOXEY. And then you would come to us for legislation, and the legislative calendar would be jammed. I would rather be sure than sorry about this proposition, if it means as much to you as we feel that it does. I want to know what your objection is to legislating on this matter.

Mr. CоBв. Mr. Doxey, I may answer that by saying that we would come to you for confirmation for something we had already done. Mr. DOXEY. I know.

Mr. COBB. Now, we are going to carry out the President's commitment. If we can all just agree on that particular point, that we are going to carry out the President's commitment, and we think we can do it without legislation, we will go ahead. As a matter of fact, we can't wait.

Mr. DoXEY. All right. That leads me to a further step. You spoke awhile ago about another reason for not legislating-now that you want to have this year's experience, so as to know more, and so forth.

Mr. Cовв. Precisely.

Mr. DoXEY. As you know, if we do not legislate at this session of Congress, the Bankhead bill will be out of operation after this year, because we do not meet here until next year, in January. My bill provides that this measure can be continued, just as it was continued this year, by a two-thirds vote of the producers, together with an Executive order from the President. Now if we do not have some legislation about this matter this session and come here the 1st of next January, what kind of complicated proposition will be before us? Whereas, if we do have legislation you can ascertain the will of the people, whether they-the producers-favor it or not, and know whether or not there is going to be a continuation of the act. That was my purpose in putting that feature in my bill, which is the only bill that I know of that even touches this subject along that line. It was in order that you men who have to administer this might have something definite to work on. You do not know and I do not know that this bill is going to be continued in effect after this year, do you, Mr. Cobb?

Mr. Cовв. We are entirely sympathetic with the idea of continuing the principle on into 1936, Mr. Doxey. Personally, I feel we have got to do it, but my feeling about it is this, that rather than have it in the form of a patchwork of amendments to this particular measure, we proceed to rewrite the act and get it as we want it, not only in one particular but in all particulars as far as experience will guide us, so that when we go into the spring of 1936 we will have the program before us upon which we are to proceed.

Mr. DOXEY. Then it is the thought of you folks who administer it and who have given thought and study to this bill that you do not want Congress to do anything about it at this session of Congress?

Mr. COBB. About this particular thing.

Mr. DoXEY. Anything about it; particularly or generally.
Mr. Cовв. No-

Mr. DoXEY. Until January 1936?

Mr. COBB. That is not quite right. What I said was this: That rather than bother with a lot of amendments to the Bankhead Act as it now stands, we proceed to write and enact the kind of a measure

that our experience indicates would be necessary to make it the workable, functioning measure that it ought to be. In other words, rather than try to patch up some rotten place in what we have, we should go ahead as we plan and rewrite the whole thing and get it as nearly right as our experience would make possible. That is my point of view.

Mr. DoXEY. I just want to get the attitude of your Department straight. I have not been able to find it, and I am trying to obtain it now.

Mr. CоBB. Well, does that make it clear?

Mr. Doxey. This Congress, speaking for myself, wants to know something about what the program is going to be and how you propose to administer the Bankhead Act this year-1935.

Mr. COBB. Let me ask this: Does my statement make that clear, as to what our attitude is?

Mr. DoXEY. In that regard; yes; but there are some other features about this matter. We have agreed, you might say, just for the purpose of argument, on a 2-bale exemption. We have agreed on the appeal board. As to the personnel and type and details, whether we have agreed or not, that can be done without legislation, you say, and the publication can be done without legislation. Ás to whether or not the act is continued, that is something you want to give further consideration, based on the experience you will have?

Mr. COBB. If Congress feels it is wise, Mr. Doxey, to go ahead right now and rewrite the Bankhead Act, we could have no objection to that. As a matter of fact, we will cooperate to the fullest possible degree, giving those interested the benefit of every whit of experience that we have gotten out of the operation of the voluntary program, the Bankhead Act as it supplemented the voluntary program, and then all of the cotton experience we have had back of that.

Mr. DoXEY. I do not want to monopolize this discussion, but while you are right there I just want to ask you this question in connection with it: You know, together with these matters that we have just casually touched on, there is also quite an agitation about paying ginners. Are you in position, under this Bankhead bill as it is now written, to pay the ginners a reasonable price for their work, trouble, and expense, in carrying out the provisions of the bill?

Mr. COBB. We are right now attempting to develop a plan, without the necessity of new legislation, that will let us do that, and we think we have got the answer to it.

Mr. DoXEY. That is in the same state as the other suggested propositions you think? Of course, I am not criticizing you for not being sure, because I am familiar with the Bankhead bill and some interpretations that have been placed upon it. Do you propose, if you have that power, to pay them for the cotton that they gin and collect the tax on for this year, and do you propose also to include some of the cotton that they ginned last year and collected the taxes on? I just want to know, if we are not going to have legislation, what your regulations are going to be with reference to paying ginners. My bill fixes 25 cents per bale, for this year and also last. Mr. COBB. I am going to ask Mr. Hiss to discuss that with you, if he will.

Mr. Hiss. Mr. Doxey, under section 17 of the Bankhead Act, the Secretary of Agriculture has authority to appoint, without regard to the provisions of the civil-service laws, "such officers, agents, and employees, and to utilize such Federal officers and employees as he may find necessary ", in order to carry out the act. We have been recently considering whether under that authority it would be possible for the Secretary of Agriculture to give some official status to the ginners and compensate them for their services under this particular act. We have not gone far enough with that investigation to make anything like an authoritative answer at this time. The specific question of whether in fixing compensation any consideration should be given to their services last year had not, so far as I know, been raised before you just mentioned it, and I do not know how the administrative officers would feel about that.

Mr. DOXEY. In order to save time, I would like to talk to you privately about this matter.

Mr. COBB. Just let me go further and say this, Mr. Doxey, that we are entirely sympathetic with the thought of compensating the ginners for the part they play in handling the Bankhead Act.

Mr. FULMER. Let me suggest this thought right here, in connection with that, Mr. Cobb. You realize there are thousands of small farmers with large families, who, because of their financial condition, their inability to buy fertilizer and supplies, really produce small quantities of cotton. The amendment that I have proposed, under subsection (h), reads:

If the allotment of tax-exempt cotton to land of any producer of cotton (or on his behalf as share cropper or tenant) is less than five bales for the crop year 1935-36, there shall be exempt from the tax imposed under this act so much of the cotton harvested on such land during such crop year as is in excess of the allotment but not in excess of 2 bales (if the allotment is less than 2 bales), 3 bales (if the allotment is 2 bales or more but less than 3 bales), 4 bales (if the allotment is 3 bales or more but less than 4 bales), or 5 bales (if the allotment is 4 bales or more but less than 5 bales), as the case may be. No producer shall be entitled to exemption certificates on the amount of cotton exempt from tax under this subsection, but, upon proof of the right to exemption under this subsection in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Agriculture and the Secretary of the Treasury, bale tags shall be issued for such cotton. For the crop year 1935-36 the quantity of cotton allotted under section 3 (a) shall include the amount which the Secretary of Agriculture estimates will be tax-exempt under this subsection and the amount of cotton apportioned under section 3 (b) shall be the amount so allotted minus the amount of tax-exempt cotton so estimated.

I want to request your serious consideration to this amendment as I expect to press same in the committee as well as in the House. This amendment is fair.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Owen.

Mr. OWEN. Mr. Cobb, you seem to entertain some doubt about your power under the present bill, with reference to the party on whom rests the duty of making the final determination of the question, only. Is that party accessible, or could you speed him up, since we are in a race with time on the matter?

Mr. COBB. Mr. Owen, what I said a while ago I think is the answer to that. We are going ahead to make the allotment, and if it is not legal today, you gentlemen are going to have to make it legal, and that should be done rather promptly.