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Johnson-O'Malley is supplemental and they are phasing out the basics for the supplemental entirely and P.L. 874 is for basic entirely.

Have you worked with the directors of the other two programs at all to try to work out some kind of coordination between them? I am talking more about policy rather than coordination with the present law. We would like to change the law so it fits the Indian childrens' needs more.

Mr. STORMER. We have worked with the other units both within our own office and within BIA. We met in Pierre, South Dakota, with BIA representatives from Washington, as well as from several states represented in that area to see what could be done to improve the coordination between our payments and in that particular instance, JOM. We are running into the problem that JOM is in its second of a three-year phase-out of basic support. There was discussion as to how to consider the state local and 874 revenues and develop a formula whereby considerations could be given to providing JOM money for the shortfall that might occur between the use of state, local and 874, and that necessity to provide a basic level of education for the Indian children.

Secondly, I should mention that I will be discussing this problem of Indian education before subcommittee staff members either later this week or following the Thursday session next week. We will discuss our relationships under 874 with BIA and with our own staff and the problem of Indian education.

Mr. QUIE. Has anything been written up of those previous meetings that you had?

Mr. STORMER. I have strictly a draft at this point in time of the formula by which BIA was going to evaluate the resources and the basic level that was necessary to-the resources which were necessary to meet the basic level of education. I have not seen the final draft.

Mr. QUIE. Will that be available by the Thursday meeting? Mr. STORMER. I will inquire. If it is available, I will have it with me, if only in draft form.

Mr. QUIE. I am not asking you to develop a policy yourself, because that will have to go through OMB and so forth and by that time we will have passed the legislation. I would like to get your assistance in drafting.

Thank you very much.

Mr. JENNINGS. I notice you have two types of analyses in the second part of your report. One is the dollar impact of different changes in payment and eligiblity provisions and the other concerns the effect of different changes in impact aid as regards property tax increases in school districts. Do I understand correctly that your statistics on the changes in eligibility and payment rates are based upon an analysis of all impact aid school districts, from the information available in their applications, but that your statistics based on the types of property tax increases which would come about are only based upon a sample of 1600 school districts?

Mr. MARTIN. That is true.

Mr. JENNINGS. With the sample of 1600 school districts, according to the Office of Education, more than fifty percent of all the impact

aid school districts have fewer than one hundred students for whom they are claiming payments.

Is your sample of 1600 weighted in proportion to the different types of school districts there are receiving impact aid both in terms of numbers of pupils for which they are claiming payments and in terms of the payments they are receiving? Is it a weighted average? Mr. MARTIN. Let me ask Mr. Harrison who is responsible for the performance of the analysis to respond.

Mr. HARRISON. There is no need for weighting in this because this is a hundred percent sample in the states in which we did this analysis.

Mr. JENNINGS. Are the characteristics of those 1600 school districts identical to the characteristics of the 4500 districts receives impact aid?

Mr. HARRISON. We have no way of knowing that. We looked at all the impact districts in the 1600 districts, but what there is in the other 3,000, approximately, we don't know about. We did not take our sample out of the 4500. We took states.

Mr. JENNINGS. Why did you choose those states?

Mr. HARRISON. They were the states that had readily available data to us because they are the 16 states that use the comparable district method of computing payment rates. They have to develop the data on property taxes and so forth in order to choose their own comparable districts. In the other states we would have to create our own data base and we didn't have time to do that.

Mr. JENNINGS. The states which take comparable groupings of school districts, if I understand it correctly, tend to be the wealthier states because those which are going to take the fifty percent state or national average tend to be the poorer states, is that correct? Therefore, your sample of these 16 states would be weighted more toward wealthier states than a representative sample of states in the country.

Mr. HARRISON. Included in our sample is the State of Oklahoma, for example. It happens that in the State of Oklahoma most of the school districts in that state actually used the minimum rate. Mr. JENNINGS. How many southern States did you have among the 16?

Mr. HARRISON. The closest to a southern school district is Oklahoma.

Mr. JENNINGS. Thank you.

Mr. KILDEE. The hearings will be recessed until tomorrow morning at 9:30.

(Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the subcommittee was recessed to reconvene at 9:30 a.m., the following day, Wednesday, June 22, 1977.)

PART 5: IMPACT AID

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 1977

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ELEMENTARY, SECONDARY

AND VOCATIONAL EDUCATION,
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m., in Room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Carl D. Perkins (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Members present: Representatives Perkins, Mottl, Weiss, Heftel, Kildee and Quie.

Staff present: John F. Jennings, majority counsel; Nancy L. Kober, staff assistant; Christopher T. Cross, senior education consultant.

Chairman PERKINS. The committee will come to order.

This is our second day of hearings on the impact aid legislation, which to my way of thinking has worked wonderfully well throughout the country.

I am delighted to welcome before the committee today one of our outstanding colleagues in the Congress, the Honorable Bob Sikes, from the great State of Florida, who was here when I first came to Congress. I know of his tremendous support for this legislation all through the years.

At this time I am going to ask the entire panel to come around, but ask Congressman Sikes to speak first. The panel will be comprised of Dr. H. David Fish, President, Impacted Area Schools, accompanied by Mr. Lanston E. Eldred; Mr. Francis L. Paul, School Business Administrator, Ayer Public Schools, Ayer, Massachusetts; Mr. Wayne Paxson, Associate Superintendent, Bellevue Public Schools, Bellevue, Nebraska; Charles Akins, Superintendent, Hardin County Public Schools, Elizabethtown, Kentucky-I have known Charles a long time; he has done a great job-Mr. Sydney Williams, Newport School Department, Newport, Rhode Island; and Mr. Max Bruner, Jr., Superintendent of Schools, Okaloosa County, Florida.

I will ask the Congressman from Florida to come around to the table, make his statement, and then introduce the superintendent from his district who is accompanying him. We will let him make his statement. Then we will get back to the regular order of Dr. David Fish.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ROBERT L. F. SIKES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA

Mr. SIKES. Thank you. It is very kind of you. I appreciate this opportunity. I am always happy to appear before your committee and to state, as I have many times in the past, that we in the House are tremendously impressed with the great work that you do as chairman, and the great job that your committee does for education. You have certainly made a record that is outstanding; a record whose beneficial effects live long in the annals of sound educational programs.

Mr. Chairman, I have the happy privilege of presenting to you the school superintendent of my county, the Honorable Max Bruner, Jr., Superintendent of Schools in Okaloosa County, Florida. This is a particular privilege because I know so well what this outstanding leader has done for schools in my county and in my state.

I am happy to state that Max Brunner is a warm and close friend and my neighbor. I have watched him build the Okaloosa County school system to, a higher successful level of operations. There are few if any which excel our school system.

I can say too, I don't know anyone who has had a more difficult job to overcome. There has been a tremendous influx of students, a tremendous number who have been brought to our area because of Federal personnel associated with Eglin Air Force Base and other Federal programs. This fact has made his job much more difficult. The fact that so much of our county is owned by state and Federal governments has increased the problem.

Despite all the handicaps, he has built a very fine educational plant throughout Okaloosa county. He just doesn't quit when there is work to do. He is very highly respected throughout the state. I am pleased to have the privilege of of introducing my good friend, Superintendent Bruner.

Chairman PERKINS. Thank you very much.

Your prepared remarks, all of you, will be inserted in the record Go ahead, Mr. Bruner.

[The statement of Mr. Bruner follows:]

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