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In any case estrogen protects women selectively and some of the hormone studies might give us more insights.

Mr. LEHMAN. I am sending over to the Library of Congress to see which publications the Kiev Institute has on that because I want to see what they are doing that we are not doing here.

Dr. WOODRUFF. I think the Russians are more interested in the nervous system in aging, the nervous system, and we are in the cardiovascular system and we are the plumbers and they are the electricians.

Mr. LEHMAN. Mr. Chairman, did you see the show last night with the different electrodes on the skulls of these older people trying to find out what happens, but they are finding people have heart attacks over their doing nothing.

Thank you for coming.

Mr. Chairman, I have a statement I would like to enter into the record from one of our leading elderly people in my area.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Without objection, it is entered into the record. Mr. Cornell.

Mr. CORNELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of questions. First of all, I noted you asked for expansion of Federal support for research. I understand that $7 million is provided in the budget. Have you any figure that you thought of?

Dr. WOODRUFF. Yes, I suggested that the Gerontology Society and estimated $12 mililon, increasing from $7 to $12 million, that is the figure to put into the budget. There are other sources of revenue for studies on aging. The studies under the Older Americans Act have been fairly applied. My study does come out of a research grant to the Andrus Center on the Older Americans Act to do basic research as well as applied research which has been supported under this act. Mr. CORNELL. What basis do you know they use for the figure of $12 million?

Dr. WOODRUFF. This is a figure that was given to me by the Gerontological Society and again I don't want to respond for the administra

tor.

Mr. CORNELL. The second question I have is the administration apparently feels there are sufficient people trained for the care of the aging and this provides nothing in the budget and would you care to respond to that?

Dr. WOODRUFF. Yes, I think most of the people that work with older people are, for the most part, on a paraprofessional level with absolutely no insight or ideas on the problems of older individuals. There were surveys done by the Administration on Aging in 1970 and one done by NICHD in 1968 which pointed out that the numbers of individuals who worked in the field of aging compared to the numbers who were trained were almost incredible. The numbers of trained individuals represents maybe 10 percent of the numbers of people who directly work with older individuals.

So, for the most part, those working with older people have very little idea about the problems of aging. Furthermore, the kinds of jobs, especially in nursing homes, have tremendously high turnover rates, because these are some of the lowest paying jobs and jobs that are of the least interesting types to individuals.

People, on the other hand, who received some training and have some commitments to older individuals, would be much better able

to provide the kinds of services and the kind of emotional support that individuals seem to need in this stage of their life span.

Those studies are available and they give very exact figures on the number of individuals who have been trained and the number projected who need to be trained. They are a bit outdated, 1968 and 1970, but they are available.

Mr. CORNELL. Thank you. I just wanted to get that into the record. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Mr. Miller.

Mr. MILLER. I just might ask you to expand a little on your answer, Dr. Woodruff. I think in the first day of these hearings we were talking about the conditions in nursing homes and it was suggested by a couple of witnesses we have to move away from institutions and into home health care and in keeping people within a family, if they desire to be there and so forth.

My concern was that, given the resource pool of people who would be able to provide those services to the elderly, remaining in their homes, it seems we may fall into the same trap we have in nursing homes with a very limited supply of people trained to really understand the problems of the aging to go beyond changing the sheets and bringing in food and so forth.

Dr. WOODRUFF. One resource we don't consider very often are the older people themselves. We talked a little about volunteers and programs for older people, but for the most part they require people to retire at age 65 and no longer be paid for these kinds of programs. So this is one resource that I think could be tapped.

I would also like to point out we have been focusing on nursing homes a lot, but only 5 percent of the Nation's elderly are institutionalized. Clearly 95 percent of older individuals reside in community kinds of settings and are relatively healthy. It is toward the quality of life and toward the healthy older people we direct most of our research But, again, the percent that are institutionalized, clearly need more of our attention in terms of resources and in terms of medical care.

Mr. MILLER. Again, if I could just ask you, would you mind expanding on what you believe you would consider to be sort of the proper training of the individual that you are looking for, because there is this element.

Dr. WOODRUFF. I think there are types of training on different kinds of levels. We are opening the Leonard Davis School of Gerontology in 1975 to train a number of different service delivery people. One, we need to train administrators, people who are going to be nursing home superintendents.

In California, in 1976 I believe it will become law that nursing home administrators have to have at least a baccalaureate degree and this is not required and there are almost no regulations in terms of administrators. We have provided a baccalaureate program that will provide an undergraduate student when he comes out with a BA degree with a complete background in terms of accounting, in terms of business kinds of competence, as well as an understanding of the psychological and sociological aspects of aging, so that this person can be an effective nursing home administrator.

Another kind of person you need to train are people that provide psychological counseling services to older individuals. We are going

to train these on a baccalaureate and on a masters degree level. Counselors, administrators, people who work in public agencies at State and Federal Government levels, people who work in the Social Security Administration, for the most part, have not had very much special training with regard to older individuals.

So I think there is a wide range of people that you can train, spanning from people who will be directly taking care of older people. Nurses come to us a lot for training. They want a masters degree and want to expand what they know about older individuals. What we say we are trying to do is gerontologize the professions, to have some input into gerontology, as to people who have already professional standing in a number of and variety of professional areas such as nursing, pharmacy, medicine, administration, so forth.

Mr. MILLER. But, aren't you still missing the individuals that in the nursing home are in the home health care services that come in direct contact?

Dr. WOODRUFF. You are talking about paraprofessionals?

Mr. MILLER. Yes. Can you address yourself to that?

Dr. WOODRUFF. There are also programs to provide certificates in gerontology that are being instituted. These are 24 unit programs that will be given at the University of Southern California.

We also have a mission to go to the junior colleges. There are junior colleges-well, they have not been interested in training in gerontology as much as in adult education. They are interested in getting a lot of older people into the junior college, but they don't at this point see the need to train people to actually serve older people. This is one of the things we have been pointing out and pressing.

I know in California there is a group of junior college individuals who meet but again they are more interested in adult education then in terms of training these kinds of paraprofessionals you are talking about. I think it is the junior colleges that will best realize this kind of training.

Mr. MILLER. Thank you very much.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Mr. Jeffords.

Mr. JEFFORDS. No questions.

Mr. BRADEMAS. The Chair might observe that there was a request for figures from the 1976 budget with respect to research. Realizing we are talking about apples and oranges, but nonetheless to give members of the subcommittee some idea of the order of magnitude of what we are talking about, the fiscal 1975 budget for defense for research, estimated, is $8.6 billion. The actual 1974 expenditure was $8.2 billion. The administration's budget request for fiscal 1976 will be $10.2 billion or an estimated 1976 increase over 1975 of $1.6 billion. The amount of money that the administration is requesting for fiscal 1976 for research under this legislation is $7 million, which amounts to less than 1/10 of 1 percent of the administration's budget request for research for the Department of Defense.

Dr. Woodruff, again the Chair wants to express his qwn appreciation and that of the subcommittee to you for your outstanding testimony. Thank you.

The next witness is our distinguished colleague, a new Member of the House of Representatives. from Oklahoma, Mr. Risenhoover. We are pleased to have you with us.

STATEMENT OF HON. THEODORE M. RISENHOOVER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

Mr. RISEN HOOVER. When the House convenes later today, I will introduce a bill amending the Older Americans Act, and I wanted to appear before this committee now because you are in the midst of hearings on that act.

My bill has two major objectives: A better diet for older Americans who receive some of their meals through title VII of the act, and better conditions for a very troubled and severely damaged section of the American farm economy.

That section is the beef industry, and I am referring specifically to the farmer and the rancher who raise cattle for the market.

I was talking about this last Friday with Bob Barr, Oklahoma's Commissioner of Agriculture, and I would like to quote just three sentences from that conversation.

Bob said that:

Prices received by beef producers are critically depressed and the situation deteriorates daily. The problems are excessive cattle and inflated production costs, Increased use of beef in nutrition programs for the elderly will produce positive and lasting success in correcting the ills of this vital American industry.

Hundreds of farmers and ranchers have told me the same thingthey are going broke because they are not getting enough for their cows to pay the costs of raising them.

Now, I'll admit that I know a lot more about the economics of cattle raising than about nutrition problems of the elderly, but I have given myself a crash course in title VII.

I find that about 220,000 meals are being served daily, but 2 years ago, when Elliot Richardson was Secretary of HEW, he said that a minimum 5 million older Americans were eligible. That was back in January of 1973. Other estimates placed the figure at 8 million.

The program was set up to aid people without enough income to buy food-there were 4,400,000 who were over 60 and below the poverty level in 1973.

Title VII was set up to also help the isolated elderly, and we know that more than one-third of the old people in the country live alone, or with people who are not related to them.

Then, there are the elderly with very little mobility-they cannot get around, and those who can't cook their own meals any more.

I've tried to describe the two sides of the problem-the millions of elderly people who need the assistance of title VII, and the thousands and thousands of cattle farmers who are going broke.

But I would like to add one more dimension to the problem before I discuss a solution, in the form of my amendment.

A few years ago, when beef prices started rising, Secretary Butz said beef shortages were here to stay. Mr. Butz has maintained his usual consistency when it comes to farming-the exact opposite of what he predicted has come true, which is the way it usually is for that gentleman.

We now have an excess of beef, created by an increase in herd totals of about 12 million mattle in 1973 and 1974.

The countryside and the pastures are loaded with cows, and farmers are raising them on grass, instead of feed grains, because grass is cheaper.

Now, the beef is out there, on the hoof.

There is apparently a tremendous amount of beef in the packers' freezers, because those friends of Mr. Butz are his friends only-they certainly are not the friends of the cattle raiser or the consumer. All you have to do is look at the huge spread in what the farmer gets, and what the consumer pays, to know the ripoff is in the middle. But that aspect should be the subject of a special investigation of its own.

This committee is concerned with more and better nutrition for the elderly, and I would like to suggest one way that this can be accomplished.

My amendment would add a new provision to the act, requiring that the Secretary of Agriculture must use $8 million of section 32 funds to acquire beef for distribution to feeding programs under title VII. This would be over and above the present required rate of 10 cents a meal in commodities which must be furnished.

I am glad that the 10-cent provision was adopted last year, and I know it is now being implemented through purchases of canned beef and processed American cheese.

Almost 1,500 tons of beef have been bought, at a cost of about $2.8 million.

My amendment would add another 14 cents in commodity purchases, but we are not talking about any appropriated money.

The section 32 fund comes from a retention of 30 percent of customs receipts on incoming dutiable goods, and I have been informed that there will be a carryover of about $50 million next fiscal year.

In fiscal 1976, the money would be appropriated; but if the appropriation should be denied, section 32 funds would again be used. A subsequent appropriation would replace the funds.

The committee is familiar with the section 32 purchases for the school feeding programs, and what a help that has been.

We can help another group-our elderly-and a vital segment of our economy-the cattle farmer-if we adopt my amendment, and I would like to urge you to give it your fullest consideration. Thank you. Mr. BRADEMAS. The chairman is going to violate the rules of the committee and recognize the chairman of the full committee.

Chairman PERKINS. Mr. Chairman, I have examined the nutrition program for the elderly in Kentucky, which presently serves 3,500 people on a daily basis. There is a waiting list of 500 people in need of this kind of help, but a lack of funds prevents the program from being expanded to include them.

Additionally, as a result of the furious rate of inflation, it is estimated that an additional $450,000 will be needed this year to keep the program operating at its present levels. This is over and above the current level of funding of $1.5 million and makes a total of nearly $2 million needed for the program. That is a 25-percent increase just to keep the current program going.

I am talking about the program in Kentucky only. Even this will not allow for expansion of the program to meet the needs of six additional areas in the State which do not have any nutrition programs for the elderly. If it were possible to expand the program to take care of these additional areas, more than $600,000 would be needed.

We are talking about a budget of over $2,500,000 as a minimum to fund the nutrition program for the elderly in the State of Kentucky.

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