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Mr. Rogers of Texas. Now, let me ask this, Mr. Bartler. Do you 190 tor have any idea about the cost of telephone as opposed to telegraph! mit the

Mr. BARTLEY. They are pretty much equivalent, I would say, equipams of mentwise. Telegraph is higher by a factor of 2 or 3. Something like a more that.

Mr. WOODYARD. That is right.
Mr. BARTLEY. I don't think that-

Mr. WOODYARD. Just roughly the order would be perhaps $10,000 against $1,500 or something like that, or $1,000. That is, telegraph which is would be the higher.

sistem í Mr. Rogers of Texas. Telegraph would be the higher. Mr. WOODYARD. Yes. In the order of 10 to 1 almost.

Mr. Rogers of Texas. Now, the thing that I had in mind, if you remove on quired them to carry both, you wouldn't have a double cost there

. precious Mr. BARTLEY. Well, as he said, the telephone equipment is less. I which r think primarily it is the big cost is in personnel.

Mr. Rogers of Texas. Yes. Now, is part of the telegraph equipment used in the telephone? Part?

Mr. BARTLEY. No.
Mr. Rogers of Texas. Two separate and distinct operations?
Mr. BARTLEY. That is right.
Mr. ROGERS of Texas. Thank you very much, Mr. Commissioner.

Any other members have any questions? Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

Mr. BARTLEY. Thank you. I think if I may be excused, we have got a Commission meeting going on, and some of the people I might leave here to bring me up to date. Mr. Rogers of Texas. Yes. We thank you for your testimony.

Our next witness will be Mr. James Brown and Capt. R. J. Mc-
Kenzie, operations superintendent of the Marine Division of Matson
Navigation Co.

Captain McKenzie, you and Mr. Brown may come forward.
Did you both have separate statements?
Captain MCKENZIE. Yes, we do.

Mr. Rogers of Texas. Suppose you give yours first, then, and Mr.
Brown can just pull a chair up there where it will be convenient.

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STATEMENT OF CAPT. R. J. MCKENZIE, OPERATIONS SUPERINTEND

ENT, MARINE DIVISION, MATSON NAVIGATION CO.; ACCOM-
PANIED BY JAMES BROWN; HENRY G. FISCHER, ATTORNEY FOR
MATSON NAVIGATION CO.; AND P. J. PESSEL, VICE PRESIDENT,
MATSON LINES

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Captain MCKENZIE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am Capt. R. J. McKenzie, marine operations superintendent

, Matson Navigation Co., 79 South Nimitz Highway, Honolulu

, Hawaii. I have been in the employ of Matson Navigation Co. for the past 25 years, serving as a deck officer and master of various ships until I came ashore to my present position of marine operations superintendent in the Hawaiian Islands 7 years ago. I appreciate the opportunity you have given me to testify here today.

The Communications Act of 1934 now prescribes radiotelegraph as the safety communications system aboard cargo vessels in excess of

2. RH 1,600 tons. H.R. 8508 would amend the Communications Act to perand one mit the use of a radiotelephone safety communications system on voyIn ages of such vessels between Hawaiian ports where the ships do not

go more than 50 miles from land. I am here to recommend the adoption of the bill because a radiotelephone safety communications system today is better in Hawaii than a radiotelegraph system. Furthermore, the considerations favoring the passage of the bill have a precedent in the agreement between United States and Canada which in 1954 adopted radiotelephone as the safety communications system for ships on the Great Lakes.

Where contact is assured, radiotelephone is better for safety communications purposes than radiotelegraph because it permits direct voice communication among vessels and land stations, and this saves precious time. It is, of course, this advantage of radiotelephone which makes it the universal safety communications system of commercial and military air transportation where safety is as deep a concern as it is at sea. A dramatic example of this peculiar advantage of radiotelephone appeared in the story of the submarine Thresher disaster in the Washington Evening Star of May 16, 1963, from which I quote:

Shortly before 11 a.m. (Lieutenant Commander) Hecker handed a radiogram to a messenger to take to the radio shack. This message, which set the public part of the Thresher drama in motion, read: "Unable to communicate with Thresher since 9:17 a.m. (e.s.t.) Have been calling by UQC voice and CW QRS CW every minute, explosive signals every 10 minutes with no success. Last transmission recorded was garbled. Indicated Thresher was approaching test depth.

My present position 41-43N 64-57W. Conducting expanding search."

Skylark's radioman sat down at his trusty Morse transmitting bug and started sending dot-dash signals to shore in the best early 20th century fashion. Atmospheric conditions gave sender and transmitter trouble, and the communications center at the New London submarine base had to break in several times to request repetitions.

Had Skylark possessed ship-shore telephone facilities, she could have conversed with the shore directly through the Boston marine operator, as newsmen aboard a destroyer in the area did 2 days later, moving thousands of words of copy by voice. Skylark's dit-da-dit transmission mode consumed 1 hour 58 minutes in sending Hecker's first brief message to New London,

When Congress, more than 25 years ago, chose radiotelegraph as the safety communications system for ships on voyages between American ports, it was not because it denied the advantage of voice communication. The choice was dictated by the fact that there was no reasonable assurance at the time that contact could be made by radiotelephone in a safety situation. Radiotelephone equipment was still in a developmental state and few stations existed which could monitor a distress frequency for radiotelephone; indeed, a radio telephone distress frequency did not even exist then.

In Hawaiian waters today, 25 years later, the situation is very different. Radiotelephone contact for safety purposes in Hawaii is assured on a continuous 24-hour-a-day basis by reason of the stations in the area monitoring the distress and ship-to-shore frequencies, and in addition, by reason of the complex of vessels almost exclusively using radiotelephone for communication in Hawaiian waters. Because such cantact is now so reliable and because radio

telephone makes a better safety communications system when this 1

is so, a radiotelephone safety system should be adopted for all cargo vessels in Hawaiian waters as it was for the Great Lakes in 1954.

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To demonstrate the reliability of radiotelephone contact for safety

The purposes in Hawaiian waters, I would like the record to show the

But, extent to which the radiotelephone distress frequency, 2182 kilocycles 1. he is monitored there. I have a letter on the matter from Rear Admiral Knapp, commander of the 14th Coast Guard District, which I would like to read:

Waits

DECEMBER 19, 1943.
MATSON NAVIGATION Co.,
Honolulu, Hawaii
(Attention : Capt. R. J. McKenzie, marine operations superintendent).

prepa Dear Sir: In reply to your letter of December 11, I am very happy to supply

IS DOW whatever useful information that can be provided by my staff. The Coast Ca. Guard has four 95-foot patrol boats in the Hawaiian area that are equipped with radiotelephone.

state 1 The equipment used on these boats are 75-watt transmitter-receiver units of the type URC-34. By proper frequency utilization, and occasionally relas.

nadiot ing traffic through another unit, satisfactory communication is achieved with these vessels.

The Coast Guard has receivers and stand a continuous guard on 2182 at the following locations within the Hawaiian Islands:

Primary Radio Station (NMO), Wahiawa-Remote receiver at Makapuu.
Loran Station Hawaii (NR05), Upolu Point.
Loran Station Kauai (NR02), Kauai.
Loran Station Molokai (NM07), Molokai.

Loran Station French Frigate Shoals (NR04).
Coast Guard floating units when within 100 miles of land are also required
to stand a continuous guard on 2182 kilocycles when underway.

I sincerely hope the information supplied herein will be beneficial to you
in selecting the proper radio equipment for your operation.
Sincerely yours,

C.C. KNAPP,
Rear Admiral, U.S. Coast Guard,

Commander, 14th Coast Guard District. If you will refer to the maps I had prepared for the purpose, you will note that station NMO is on the island Oahu, NRO-5 is on the island of Hawaii, NRO-2 is on the island of Kauai and NMO-7 is on the island of Molokai. NRO-4 if off the map to the northwest, French Frigate Shoals.

The Coast Guard, then, has fixed stations spreading the entire width of the Hawaiian Islands standing continuous watch and a number of cutters and lighthouse tenders standing watch when underway within 100 miles from land.

Next, I have a letter on the subject from Mr. John J. Jaquette, executive vice president of the Hawaiian Telephone Co., which I hope you will permit me to read:

DECEMBER 13, 1963.
R. J. MCKENZIE,
marine Operations Superintendent,
Jatson Navigation Co.,
Honolulu, Hawaii.

DEAR MR. MCKENZIE: The coastal marine radiotelephone service operated by
Hawaiian Telephone Co. is offered to any properly licensed ship anywhere in
Hawaiian waters on a 24-hour basis. Transmitters and receivers are maintained
ou both the distress and ship-to-shore channels.

A project is now in progress to improve this service by adding two receiving locations to the present one and by relocating transmitters to more favorable locations. This project includes the installation of improved antennas and automatic indication of received calls at the telephone switchboard in place of aural monitoring for detection of calls. A construction permit (file No. 1850 M-P-93) has been issued by the Federal Communications Commission and we expect to complete work on this project within 6 months. Yours truly,

JOHN J. JAQUETTE

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The Hawaiian Telephone Co. maintains station KBP at Hanauma

Bay, and station KQM at Kahuku, on the island of Oahu. By July free 1, the telephone company is scheduled to put into operation new transmater tako mitting stations at Barber's Point, Oahu and Kahuku, Oahu, to rezu Dit:e place the present stations. They will operate at the power of 1,000

watts during the day 700 watts at night. New receivers will be placed Is into service at Kahuku, Oahu, and Kaneilio Point, Oahu, to supple

ment the existing receivers at Koka Head. On the maps I have had se prepared, map A presents the radiotelephone network in Hawaii as it

is now; map B presents it as it will be after the Hawaiian Telephone
Co. makes its scheduled changes.

On this question of the reliability of radiotelephone contact, I can
state finally of my own personal knowledge that in the past 15 years
radiotelephone has nearly completely replaced radiotelegraph for ma-
rine communication in Hawaiian waters. What this means is that

contact on marine frequencies other than the distress frequency is - reasonably assured with the complex of vessels underway in the area.

In that connection, I would like to put into the record the text of a let-
ter I received last week from Mr. George E. Goss, president of the
Hawaii Council of Boat Associations:

FEBRUARY 14, 1964.
Capt. R. J. MCKENZIE,
Marine Operations Superintendent,
Matson Navigation Co., Honolulu, Hawaii.

DEAR CAPTAIN MCKENZIE: The Hawaii Council of Boat Associations has noted
with much interest the announced improvement in the commercial radiotelephone
network that Hawaiian Telephone Co. plans to put in effect on June 30, 1964.
Most of the small pleasure craft operate low-power transmitters from 24 to 38
watts, so the new receiving and transmitting stations will make it much easier
for them to communicate with KBP. The commercial fishing boats operate sets
up to 103 watts. The new locations should effectively cover all areas where the
boats operate and make for a very efficient system.

Since our organization in 1958 we have had no complaints from any of our members reporting incidents wherein their boatowners have been unable to communicate with the U.S. Coast Guard on 2,182 kilocycles when it was necessary. The efficient Coast Guard network coupled with the commercial network have helped make boating in Hawaii one of the safest areas in the United States.

A statewide inventory of small craft taken in 1961 disclosed that craft were
moored in harbors throughout the State as follows:

Commercial fishing craft: Kauai, 34; Maui, 18; Hawaii, 152; Molokai, 51;
Lanai, 1.

Recreational craft: Kauai, 100; Maui, 62; Hawaii, 215; Oahu, 2,675.
Yours very truly,

HAWAII COUNCIL OF BOAT ASSOCIATIONS,

GEO. E. Goss, President.
There are three tug and barge companies operating within the
Hawaiian Islands, Hawaiian Tug & Barge, Isleways, and Pacific
Inland Navigation Co. Isleways operate mainly to the island of Lanai,
however, they do call at all the other islands. Hawaiian Tug & Barge
have regular scheduled calls at all major island ports with the excep-
tion of Lanai. Pacific Inland Navigation operate the 3,800 h.p. tug
Winquatt which tows the Matson interisland barge Islander to Hawaii,
Kauai, Maui, and Oahu. Isleways operate two ATA-type, 1,800 h.p.
tugs, the Ono and Ahi. Hawaiian Tug & Barge have eight seagoing
tugs which range from 1,000 to 2,400 h.p.

So with Coast Guard stations and the Hawaiian Telephone Co. sta-
tions maintaining a 24-hour radiotelephone watch and with radio-
telephone being the almost exclusive means of marine communication

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in Hawaiian waters, I think it is clear that radiotelephone is better
than radiotelegraph as a safety communications system for all cargo
vessels moving between Hawaiian ports.

Thank you.
Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for letting me appear before you.
Mr. ROGERS of Texas. Thank you.

I presume that you desire these maps to be included as part of your statement.

Captain McKENZIE. I do, sir.

Mr. Rogers of Texas. Without objection, that and the other documents attached to the statement will be included.

(The documents referred to follow.)
Mr. ROGERS of Texas. Are there any questions, Mr. Moss!
Mr. Moss. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Captain McKenzie, what is the additional cost to Matson if they are required to operate a new hull as a self-propelled unit using radiotelegraph rather than radiotelephone?

Captain McKENZIE. I would have to get those figures, how much i would be, but perhaps Mr. Brown could answer that. I haven't got that figure. You are talking about money, actual money? Mr. Moss. That is right. Captain MCKENZIE. No, I wouldn't have that figure. Mr. Moss. Could you supply it for the record ?

Mr. Brown. You are looking, sir, for the cost of radiotelephone versus radiotelegraph, our feeling what the difference would be.

The cost will be, of course, two part. The initial equipment, say, 10 to 1, the previous figure given by the Federal Communications Commission for the basic equipment, plus the space on the vessel to house it which is in the same proportion, greater space required for radiotelegraph over radiotelephone, and the manning. I would say an intial cost of approximately $20,000 more for radiotelegraph, on basic initial cost. Operating cost would be another $10,000 to $15,00 per year.

Mr. Moss. That is all at the moment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Rogers of Texas. Mr. Cunningham?
Mr. CUNNINGHIAM. No questions.
Mr. Rogers of Texas. Mr. Kornegay?

Mr. KORNEGAY. How many ships does Matson have plying the waters in and around Hawaii?

Captain McKENZIE. We have 16 right now.

Mr. KORNEGAY. Do you operate on a regular schedule and call at the major ports of the islands?

Captain MCKENZIE. We have 16 vessels calling at the Hawaiian Islands. Not all of them go to the other islands. We do have one barve called The Islander which we hope to power and run between the islands on its own power. We are only here the only vessel that is really affected by this H.R. 8505 is one of them

Mr. KORNEGAY. That is what I want to find out. Only one.
Captain McKENZIE. Only one vessel.
Mr. KORNEGAY. That is in excess of 1,600 tons.
Captain McKENZIE. That is right.

Mr. KORNEGAY. All of your vessels, the other 15, are less than 1,600 tons; is that right?

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