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Do you do any of this here?

Mr. VOLOSEN. Yes. Well, we have done this in the State of New Jersey. We have worked with other organizations. Through assistance to them we have financially, particularly, made a contribution to the senior citizens center in Elizabeth, N.J.

We have also given some support to centers in Paterson and Hackensack. However, we ourselves have not been involved in a center program. But only acting as part of the group.

It is our thinking, and as far as we are concerned, that we do not intend to operate any such center as an organization unto itself, but expect to work along with the community and be a part of the community groups that are interested in doing this.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Is Mr. Gray going to appear for Mr. Compton also?

Mr. VOLOSEN. I don't know whether Mr. Compton will be here today. I understand that Mr. Gray is here and possibly may appear for the United Automobile Workers.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Fine. There was a little conflict in the letters we got from Mr. Compton and the telephone calls we got. Mr. Gray

wrote me.

Mr. DANIELS. Thank you, Mr. Voloson, for your testimony.

I should notice that the school class is also accompanied by another teacher, Mr. Edwin Skladany, who is a teacher of social studies at the New Brunswick High School.

I would like to ask Mrs. Antheil and Mr. Skladany both to rise so that the audience may meet you. Thank you very much.

I am now going to call upon Mr. Ellsworth, who is special adviser to this committee in making this study, to explain to you the difference between the Kerr-Mills bill which is presently a Federal law, and the proposed King-Anderson bill which is now pending in Congress and which is the subject matter of a great deal of discussion. In fact, it is one of the most vital bills pending before the 87th Congress which is now in session.

Mr. Ellsworth, would you be kind enough to explain what the present law is and how the present law would be affected by the proposed King-Anderson bill.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Just to go back a little bit, most of you are familiar with the proposal of Congressman Forand to put into effect a law which would provide automatically for people who qualify for social security benefits certain medical care under the social security provisions. Congressman Forand is no longer in Congress; he resigned last year, and the proposal that is now before Congress is the KingAnderson bill, which again you would automatically qualify for once you qualified for social security benefits.

Last year the American Medical Association supported and still supports the Kerr-Mills bill, which has been passed on a national level. The Kerr-Mills merely provides money for States who want to set up a program known as the MAA, Medical Assistance for the Aged, money for which they can then set up matching money to provide a State program.

As most of you are aware, there is already in every State, practically, a public assistance program for people who are completely indigent, which furnishes them medical care. I am sure there is one in New Jersey.

Mr. VOLOSEN. There is, Ted.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. I am not familiar with the New Jersey law, but under this you have to pass a means test, which means you may be allowed to have $1,500 in real property. You may be allowed to have $60 a month income or whatever the provisions are, and they vary by each State.

The difference in the Kerr-Mills bill is that the Federal Government has provided additional money for people who may not be able to pass means test in each State, but who still cannot meet their medical bills. For example, if your program here says that you can only earn half, $1,500 in real property, under the Kerr-Mills bill you could set up a different provision in order to furnish medical care.

I wonder if that is clear to everybody, because it is a little confusing if you are not familiar with it.

There are two sets of standards, one for general assistance and one for medical assistance. You may meet the standard for medical assistance but still not be able to meet the standard for general assistance, as Mr. Volosen said. This is based on a means test and you must declare what your income is and what property you own. In some States it goes further to members of the family.

As Mr. Volosen stated, the labor unions and senior citizens clubs generally are opposed to this and support the King-Anderson bill. The King-Anderson bill would provide first care for everybody who is currently on social security. The King-Anderson bill would provide care for everybody who reaches 65 when they are eligible for social security benefits, and those are on a national basis.

Briefly, this is what the bill would provide, and it is primarily a hospital bill. It will provide or I should say it will give institutionaltype of care under this bill, it does not include doctor services except in a very minor way.

It provides up to 90 days of paid-up hospital services, with the exception of a $10-a-day deductible for the first 10 days.

Mr. DANIELS. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. DANIELS. Mr. Edward Gray.

Mr. VOLOSEN. He will be here this afternoon.

Mr. DANIELS. No answer.

Next is Mrs. Phyllis Greer, is she here?

She told me she had a conflict this morning and she would try to be here. She said she would try to get over here before lunch.

Are there any witnesses who would like to testify this morning? If there are, will you step forward and give your name, please.

TESTIMONY OF EDWARD RASP, REPRESENTING THE ASSOCIATION OF RETIRED PERSONS, NORTH ESSEX CHAPTER, BLOOMFIELD, N.J.

Mr. RASP. I would like to testify.

Mr. DANIELS. Will you spell your last name, please?

Mr. RASP. R-a-s-p.

Mr. DANIELS. Do you represent any particular organization?

Mr. RASP. I am representing the American Association of Retired Persons, Bloomfield, North Essex Chapter.

Mr. DANIELS. Where do you live, sir?

Mr. RASP. I live at 655 East Passaic Avenue in Bloomfield.

Mr. DANIELS. Do you hold any official title with the American Association?

Mr. RASP. I am legislative chairman.

Mr. DANIELS. Where is this association located?

Mr. RASP. The American Association for Retired People is a national organization of some 500,000 members. We have about 12,000 members in New Jersey. Our local chapter is in Bloomfield and North Essex. We have about 200 members, it is very new. We didn't receive this letter from our Washington headquarters until Saturday and for that reason I am not prepared to go into any detail. I am down here to make an appearance, but I did want to get into the record that our Washington office gave us this information which would naturally be a guide to us in that it considers that it would be a significant step forward if the Fogarty bill, H.R. 1014, were passed.

And for these reasons I did want to get in the record and make an appearance here, and I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity of appearing.

Mr. DANIELS. Mr. Rasp, I believe you stated that your national organization had an organization of 500 million. Do you mean 500 million members? Or do you mean to say 500,000?

Mr. RASP. A half a million, 500,000.

Mr. DANIELS. The record will be corrected accordingly.

Do you have anything further to add?

Mr. RASP. That would be beyond the realm of possibility.

Mr. DANIELS. How many members do you have in the State of New Jersey?

Mr. RASP. I understand from the Washington office that it is between 12,000 and 15,000. We are growing very rapidly.

The national organization was only organized in 1958.

Mr. DANIELS. How are your chapters set up locally?

Mr. RASP. Well, we have a regular organization of just members of the national group.

Mr. DANIELS. Are they set up in municipalities or on a statewide basis?

Mr. RASP. No, we take in, for instance, the North Essex County area we have at present eight chapters in New Jersey and in seven different counties.

Mr. DANIELS. Set up on a regional basis then?

Mr. RASP. We are expanding very rapidly.

Mr. DANIELS. Thank you, sir.

Mr. RASP. You are welcome.

Mr. DANIELS. Is there anybody else to be heard?

TESTIMONY OF FRANK SWEYGART, REPRESENTING THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF RETIRED PERSONS, UNION COUNTY, N.J.

Mr. SWEYGART. Mr. Chairman, I am merely here as an observer of the American Association of Retired Persons representing Union County.

Mr. DANIELS. Your name, sir?

Mr. SWEYGART. Sweygart, S-w-e-y-g-a-r-t.

Mr. DANIELS. Your address, please?

Mr. SWEYGART. 735 Jersey Avenue, Elizabeth, N.J.

Mr. DANIELS. Do you desire to make a statement ?

Mr. SWEYGART. I just want to corroborate what Mr. Rasp said about our national organization being in favor of passage of the bill. Mr. DANIELS. Thank you.

Is there anybody else?

TESTIMONY OF MRS. WALTER MOLYNIEUX, PRESIDENT OF NEW JERSEY ASSOCIATION OF HOMES FOR AGED, ALSO NATIONAL BOARD OF NEWLY FORMED NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR NONPROFIT HOMES

Mrs. MOLYNIEUX. I am Mrs. Walter Molynieux of Morristown, N.J.

Mr. DANIELS. Have your organizations taken any position with reference to the pending legislation?

Mrs. MOLYNIEUX. The Kerr-Mills, we have.

Mr. DANIELS. What is your position ?

Mrs. MOLYNIEUX. We are in favor.

Mr. DANIELS. You are in favor with respect thereto ?
Mrs. MOLYNIEUX. We are in favor.

Mr. DANIELS. Thank you.

Dean Weidner, would you care to make an appearance?
Dean WEIDNER. Yes.

Mr. DANIELS. Dean Weidner, I am happy to welcome you here before this committee and we appreciate your appearance and I am sure you have a good and valuable message for us.

Dean WEIDNER. Thank you very much. Actually what I would like to do is read into the record a statement by Dr. Ernest E. McMahon, a dean of the university college and university extension division and director of the institute of management and labor relations, Rutgers, the State university.

I am the associate dean in charge of the university extension division and as such Dean McMahon represents a broad adult education function performed here at the university.

Dean McMahon's statement is as follows, and I quote:

STATEMENT BY DR. ERNEST E. MCMAHON, DEAN OF UNIVERSITY COLLEGE AND THE UNIVERSITY EXTENSION DIVISION, AND DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE OF MANAGEMENT AND LABOR RELATIONS, RUTGERS, THE STATE UNIVERSITY

The educational and organizational resources of the universities are not being brought to bear effectively upon the problems of old age and of preparation for old age. In a society with an increasing percentage of elderly citizens, with forced retirement practices, and with increasing pressures upon the work force because of automation and related technological advances, there should be a concerted effort to focus attention on the problems of aging in the same manner as attention is now being focused on urban problems through foundation grants and governmental action. Funds are necessary for pilot projects, for research, and for educational activities. Educational resources exist, but we lack the financial resources to marshal them.

I make this statement as former chairman for Middlesex County of the White House Conference on Aging, as a former mayor of

Metuchen, N.J., and as a former president of the National University Extension Association. Much progress would be made if the so-called general extension bill, H.R. 8732, could receive favorable action in this Congress because one of the pressing needs which that bill proposed to meet in part is that of university service to the public in the field of the aging.

If there are any questions about educational problems or anything, I would be glad to answer them if you have any. If not, that is it. Mr. DANIELS. The Chair has no questions.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. We had testimony from the head of the extension at the University of California at Berkeley to the effect that they have many, many requests for extension programs for the senior citizen groups, especially people from 45 up, and for retired groups and that there are many programs that they feel they could put out that would be of great value to the senior citizens, both educationally and culturally and in other ways. But unfortunately in California they do not have money to do this because the extension service must support itself to the extent of 90 percent of the income that must come from registration fees, which makes the fee so high they cannot service the senior population.

Does that exist here? He was asking that grants be made so that they could do this.

Dean WEIDNER. A similar situation exists in New Jersey. In fact, the amount of support which we must realize in the university extension division at Rutgers, the State university, is that 110 percent of expenses must be realized from fees. We must cover all our costs of operation.

We might be considered in some areas as an auxiliary operation. We receive no State funds to support our general extension program here at Rutgers, the State university, no State or Federal funds. That is the reason that Dean McMahon indicated that we could do something about some of these problems in the aging if we had some type of Federal support for programs which might meet the needs, the general need of the public in the area of aging.

We are obliged to deny requests for programs among the older groups, because, as we all know, the funds are not available to enable you to pay a teacher, a group of teachers, to advertise the costs of promotion as we call it to put staff time on. Staff time has to be covered out of the income. Because, as I mentioned before, we are selfsupporting and more so to the extent of 10 percent, and sometimes it has been in some years 15 percent more than we actually expend. We have to bring that in.

Does that answer your question, Mr. Ellsworth?

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Yes.

Mr. DANIELS. Dean Weidner, I wanted to bring something to your attention. You and I have discussed this personally, but last year I sat on the Subcommittee on Special Education which considered the university extension bill in which you were very much interested, and which caused you to come down to Washington to talk on behalf of its enactment. The trouble as I saw it was that so many people who appeared before the committee asked for requests to conduct courses in such as repairing bicycle tires, and to train salesmen and they went into so many fields which we thought were not the proper func

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