TESTIMONY OF JOEL JACOBSON, FIRST EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE NEW JERSEY STATE AFL-CIO

Mr. JACOBSON. I am first executive vice president of the New Jersey State AFL-CIO. I would like to record our appreciation to you, Congressman Daniels, and to the other members of the committee for this opportunity to present our views for your consideration.

We represent almost one-half million members in the State of New Jersey and I can state on their behalf that we are deeply appreciative of the growing concern being manifested by such leaders as yourself in the problems of our older citizens.

There is no question that the problems they face constitute some of the most pressing needs of our entire Nation. I think it is perfectly obvious that our total population is becoming more and more aware of these problems.

I would not include within the definition of total population, however, unfortunately, the members of the American Medical Association, or particularly the members of the Medical Society of New Jersey-unfortunately. However, there have already been many activities advanced to serve the needs and to help solve some of the problems of our older citizens to protect their health and income and to maintain their dignity. But there is no question that much more remains to be done.

It is precisely because so much more is required to help meet these difficulties being faced by our older citizens that if an intelligent and efficient program is to be devised it is obvious that such activities must be channeled intelligently.

I think it would be silly to permit the continuation of a crazy quilt buckshot approach by a maze of different Government agencies of different departments. I think it is basic efficiency that would require that some centralized direction, intelligent application to the many approaches to solve problems of the aging be instituted. It appears to me that this centralized direction could apprise and pinpoint the specific needs of older citizens. It could be required to coordinate the activities with like agencies, and it could command cooperation between and with other Government agencies as well as non-Government agencies.

As a matter of fact, if I were asked to state in one sentence what we are recommending here, I think I could state it best in trade union parlance where I would say that the older citizens of our Nation need a business agent.

I know that there will be opposition to this type of legislation as there has already been considerable opposition to other programs to provide Federal help for our senior citizens.

I would like to just about in 2 or 3 minutes concern myself more with the nature of the opposition and why I think this opposition should not be permitted to have their point of view prevail.

We continually hear about the encroachment of the Federal Government. The word "encroachment" is specifically used.

I must say that I would prefer the encroachment of the Federal Government on any program than any program being currently proposed by the medical society. But even that as a philosophical matter, I disagree with the term "encroachment" as concerns the interest of the Federal Government in problems such as this. I don't think it is

encroachment at all, I think it is a desire to serve, and it may be unwise to quote a Republican before the members of this committee, but I think he is fairly far removed from the scene that I may quote him with impunity.

When President Lincoln said that

Government should provide for the people what the people cannot provide for themselves.

It is precisely this interest that you are demonstrating by your concern with this problem. I am also very much concerned when I continually hear about the fear of the Federal Government becoming involved in these programs.

As if our Federal Government were some sinister foreign power.

I am American enough to believe that the American Federal Government belongs to all of us and should be used precisely to solve such problems as you are concerned with today.

I would like to make just one final reference to the opposition of the organized medical profession, and particularly here in the State of New Jersey because I think we have a particular virulent adjunct of the American Medical Association in the State of New Jersey. They have demonstrated some blind, unthinking opposition to all types of legislation primarily in the field of medical care in this State.

I must say that if the organized medical profession speaks for all of the doctors then I am in violent disagreement. I will concede that the doctors have superior knowledge and information in the field of medicine, but unfortunately we are not discussing medicine, we are discussing economics and the doctors have shown an abysmal ignorance of the problem of economics.

I cannot help but express a personal view that I hope my doctor knows much more about medicine than he knows about economics, when I place my life in his hands. But the American Medical Association and particularly the Medical Society of New Jersey have amassed a shameful record of distortion, vituperation, character assassination, and even smears in opposing all citizens who have proposed Federal programs to meet the health needs of our older citizens.

I have to question whether the Medical Society of New Jersey really speaks for all of the doctors in our State. I particularly question it when it becomes aware of the fact that the president of the Medical Society of New Jersey happens to be a member of the committee of enforcers for the John Birch Society, and it appears to me that the doctors of New Jersey are entitled to better representation than a John Bircher.

I just wanted to get these few remarks on the record, and again we are deeply grateful to you and the committee for this opportunity to express our views.

Mr. DANIELS. Mr. Jacobson, I note that you recommend that an agency be established at the Federal level to work in cooperation with a State organization or other agencies, both public and private.

Mr. JACOBSON. We should like to see some centralized direction, the specific form-I am certainly not expert enough in government to recommend a specific form. We would like to see some agency.

Mr. DANIELS. I wanted to know if you had some specific recommendations.

Mr. JACOBSON. I would like to see some centralized direction to coordinate in the field of geriatrics.

Mr. DANIELS. Mr. Jacobson, on behalf of the committee I want to express to you my thanks and my appreciation for your coming here to give us the benefit of your views. I know that you are greatly interested in the problems affecting the interest and welfare of our citizens by virtue of the interest that you have displayed on many other public issues. Thank you very much.

Mr. JACOBSON. Thank you, sir.

Mr. DANIELS. Just a moment, Mr. Jacobson; counsel would like to ask you one question.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. We had a question that was raised in another hearing concerning Mr. Marciante, I believe it is.

Mr. JACOBSON. Mr. Louis P. Marciante, he was the former president of the New Jersey State Federation of Labor.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. He testified at one of the Senate hearings that there were four projects planned, housing projects planned by the State AFL, and this committee, the members who are not here, would like to find out what has happened; whether this has progressed and whether it has been held up unnecessarily or what has happened. Mr. JACOBSON. This was a statement by Mr. Charles Marciante who is the current secretary-treasurer of the State. This program is still under consideration. We are working on it.

There has been nothing specific advanced as yet, but it is very definitely one of the major projects in the New Jersey State AFL-CIO. Mr. ELLSWORTH. Are you having any trouble getting the financing or getting the thing through the governmental channels? This is what we are somewhat interested in.

Mr. JACOBSON. I cannot say that the way has been particularly greased, but I cannot also refer to any particular obstacles. It is a combination that I think our organization is a new one, we ourselves have been faced with many internal problems and have occupied a great deal of our time with them. But this is a goal we have set for ourselves. We intend to pursue it.

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you.

Mr. DANIELS. Our next witness is Mr. Roy J. Ast, president of the New Jersey Association for Adult Education.

TESTIMONY OF ROY J. AST, PRESIDENT OF THE NEW JERSEY ASSOCIATION FOR ADULT EDUCATION

Mr. Ast. If you would like, I have a prepared statement. First of all, on behalf of the New Jersey Association for Adult Education I would like to thank the committee for inviting us to participate in this hearing. We feel that it is a privilege to have a chance to contribute to the general concerns of the aging. There is a point or two I would like to make first before I get to the actual statement, which we have atempted to develop for your use as to perhaps identify our relationship to this concern for the aging.

In the first place, we as an association in New Jersey represent many of the leaders in a very wide variety of educational groups, not only the public school, but we also include in our membership outstanding leaders in the YMCA, the YWCA, the YMHA, and the YWHA. Many members from the old guard and the golden age groups.

We have representation or membership as a part of the labor, industrial groups, various cultural groups in New Jersey State as well as local public libraries; State as well as local museum groups, university, university extension and a wide variety of community advisory and planning councils.

Representing that particular group as in our membership we are perhaps naive in legislative activity because our greatest concern has been with development of organizations and groups and people in really an active endeavor to provide opportunities for continuing education throughout all of life.

Mr. DANIELS. May I ask you this question: Does the New Jersey Association for Adult Education, are they a nonprofit organization? Mr. AST. Yes, it is an nonprofit organization.

Mr. BAILEY. Íts membership comes from what area?
Mr. AST. It comes from throughout the State.
Mr. BAILEY. Throughout the State of New Jersey?
Mr. AST. Yes.

Mr. BAILEY. It is a dues-paying organization?
Mr. AST. It is a dues-paying organization; yes.

Mr. BAILEY. How many members do you have, sir?

Mr. AST. We have two types of membership, one as individual membership of leaders in adult education which exceeds 500 at the present time.

Then we have an organizational old type of membership based upon a variety of organizations in the State which at the present time approximate 70 to 80.

This is a State, community type of organization. In our organization, as I mentioned, we are concerned with the adult in a continuing educational activity, and any development that tends to segment or isolate groups, and in this connection age groups, we sincerely try to reject as policy.

Now, in terms of our demonstration of interest, we have for example going back to 1958, 1959, and 1960 with the cooperation of the State department of education, bureau of adult education, we have organized a series of workshop programs throughout both the northern and southern parts of the State. Of these workshop groups a number of them concern themselves with the problems of aging.

In our 1960 fall conference that we had, we had this conference held at Petty School, a weekend fall conference from Friday through Sunday in September of 1960, we had a statewide conference dealing with education for the aging. We had very close cooperation of the New Jersey Division on Aging in establishing that conference.

In that conference we had cooperative participation from the White House conferences dealing with the aging.

At the present time, to demonstrate our concern of all groups, if you have a chance to peruse or inquire into what we have undertaken in publications you'll see that they concern themselves not only with the aspects of curriculum approach in the public adult school but the library activity and the Y activities dealing with the total adult society.

We have begun working actively in the program of television with the new inception of channel 13. We have established a television utilization committee.

We have begun meeting with the staff of channel 13 when they begin opening as of this fall, in order to augment opportunities for education for not really the aging, but all of the adult society.

Our present spring conference that comes up with this coming May has a segment of it that relates directly to the aging. The early morning session will deal with man and his natural world, and all of this demonstrates our active interest in all phases of the aging from education through that of community council activity.

In terms of the direct statement which has been developed on the basis of direct consultations with members of the executive committee of our State association as well as a variety, perhaps a sampling, we might call it, of membership. I would like to read the statement for the matter of the record.

It is our conviction that programs and planning in the field of aging and geriatrics should be established in such ways as not to segment or isolate groups in our community adult society. There ought not be set up such special facilities or agencies on the Federal, State, or community level that tends to segment or isolate the aging and aged from the rest of society except where the needed service or program cannot possibly be achieved by any other means.

It is our further conviction that there are a number of particularly needed programs for today's older people, yet our organization and planning must be aimed simultaneously at younger age groups. There seems to be strong indication that tomorrow's older people will be less burdened with the financial aspects of their problems, but will find the meaningful use of time their greatest challenge. Even today, the challenge of age is becoming the challenge of people in their forties and fifties.

It is our believe that a bureau or office for the aging in the HEW with an advisory committee that includes legislator membership and an interdepartmental committee similar to that identified in H.R. 710 could very well help to achieve the objectives as identified in H.R. 10014, particularly that aspect of coordination of Federal, State, community, and private agencies. Obviously, legislation will have to provide for the enlargement of the Office of Aging in the HEW to accomplish the aims and objectives for meeting the needs of today's and tomorrow's older persons.

In regard to the financial provisions as set forth in the various bills under consideration the provisions developed in H.R. 10014 seem to hold the greatest promise for realistic accomplishment of objectives in this area.

We in the field of adult education are vitally concerned with the continuous development of our human resources. When the members of a society, whatever their age, are provided the opportunity to achieve their maximum potential as functioning citizens, the total society inevitably benefits. As scientists and medical researchers become more knowledgeable of the process of aging they continue to emphasize "Our research aims to add life to years and not just years to life." Dr. Geoffrey H. Bourne, Emory University, Atlanta, is quoted in the Wall Street Journal of April 4, 1962, as saying: "We must concern ourselves with making this added 'life' fruitful, to the individual and to his society."

I wish to thank you for the opportunity in presenting this particular statement. It is our belief based on our experience.