vention and which go to alternate methods of care, and treatment in rehabilitation centers.

such as home care

This is not stated critically. Certainly we must provide adequate facilities for the care of the aged and certainly we must develop appropriate recreational and social facilities for the aging. We have no quarrel with this. Our concern, however, is related to the fact that little, if anything, is done to prevent these conditions, to provide the kind of culture which will enable an individual to lead a meaningful life irrespective of age or incapacity. We express this concern because we recognize that it is only through the development of appropriate preventive services and facilities that the needs of the aged will truly be met.

Public welfare in California is deeply committed to the provision of aid and services to the aged. There are approximately one and a quarter million aged persons in California and of this number almost one-third are served in some manner by public welfare agencies in the 58 counties of this State. Our financial commitment is heavy and we welcome Federal legislation which more heavily subvents costs of improving staffing standards, the development of experimental projects, research, and training. Moreover, we strongly recommend provisions for medical services to the aged as part of the social insurance system which will enable the financing of such care through contributions made by the individual during his productive years. I thank you.

Mr. O'HARA. Thank you, Mr. Simmons. I want to state at this point that your entire statement will appear in the record as your testimony. I am sorry we had to confine you. I think your statement was excellent. It points out, I think, weak aspects of the programs we have had for the aged. Most of the programs are designed to ameliorate problems of the aged after we have let the problems arise. But we have done very little in attempting to assist people to remain as self-sufficient as possible.

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, I certainly agree with what you are saying and the problem arises out of the fact that the individuals concerned with cases have been doing nothing to solve the aspect of this problem as I have stated here. But I think our concern needs to go to the cultural aspects of this problem and this makes it more difficult.

Mr. O'HARA. Other witnesses have testified with regard to the local problem of jobs and making available to older persons the kinds of meaningful work and opportunities the aged deserve. I think, in the long run, this might be less expensive, don't you?

Mr. SIMMONS. I am convinced that it will.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Giaimo, do you have any questions?
Mr. GIAIMO. Yes.

I want to compliment you on your presentation, Mr. Simmons. I think it is going to be very helpful, but I would like to have you just tell us briefly, where does the Federal Government fit into this area?

Mr. SIMMONS. The Federal Government of course fits in in a variety of ways. You participate heavily in the financial assistance to the aged whom we serve. You participate considerably in staffing, the administrative costs of that serving agency, you participate through your matching programs in the special project programs that I mentioned that have been recently established by the State legislature.

You have legislation before you which contemplates the increase in the matching formula for administrative costs of certain kinds, going largely to staffing public welfare and agencies, and I think this is a particularly important feature of the bill. What is it? It is 10606, I believe, in that it will go to this problem of upgrading, staffing, and services as to the agencies through county welfare departments, so there are many ways that the Federal Government is assisting. Mr. GIAIMO. Well, you are talking about existing programs. Mr. SIMMONS. And also the proposed legislation.

Mr. GIAIMO. I am speaking about the bills we are addressing ourselves to today. Why should we get into this?

Mr. SIMMONS. You are talking about the reorganizational proposals that are before you.

Mr. GIAIMO. Yes.

Mr. SIMMONS. Well, I am not prepared to speak for the agency on this. I might say that whatever you do, originally, must take into account that the public welfare and other agencies who will speak for themselves have a tremendous investment in this already, and whatever is done must take this into account and work through those established resources, recognizing in the State of California we have 58 counties with departments available to use to assist with aging and the problems they bring to those agencies. It seems to me that if another agency is established, that its role should concern itself probably with planning, coordination, and possibly research rather than the development of any kind of an administrative function that goes to the development and operation of programs in the field. Does that partially answer your question?

Mr. GIAIMO. Only partially. I would still like to know, or press a little, I realize everything you are saying is true, and that it should be done, but the question is going to be asked of us by many Members of the Congress, fine, but is this a function that should be financed by the Federal Government or should the States do it?

Mr. SIMMONS. I view the Federal

Mr. GIAIMO. I am trying to build a record here.

Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, sir, I understand. I view the Federal, State, county governments in the sense of a cooperative government. It seems to me that each level of government has a role and I think that particularly important is the Federal role. I certainly would not advocate the lessening of the activities of the Federal Government in its concern for these problems, but rather for strengthening it, because I must say that the level of standards in a sense of standard setting are the highest, at the highest level of government and they become increasingly downgraded as they flow downward and become and get nearer to the people that are served, and this means obviously that at the county level you have the poorest level of service and this is true in the State of California, if you view the public assistance programs as they are expressed through the general assistance program. You will find that this program is very poor indeed as compared to the Federal programs, so my direct answer to that is that the Federal agency has a responsibility and an important one in this business.

Mr. GIAIMO. Do you think that this job can be done without Federal help, or do you feel that it can be done as well without Federal help? Mr. SIMMONS. There isn't any question in my mind at all but what the problem will be much better done with Federal aid, and in terms

of time the achievement of goals that you speak of will be accelerated through the provision of the Federal aid and consultation.

Mr. GIAIMO. Thank you.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Simmons, if I might add my appreciation to Mr. Giaimo for his question, I think that was an excellent statement. It shows a great deal of thought about the problem as a whole as it deals with prevention as well as amelioration.

Now, may I ask a question that perhaps isn't too relevant, but is one which has troubled me, because I am from the State of Michigan? Last year the U.S. Congress enacted an amendment to the Social Security Act. The amendment made eligible for the first time the children of unemployed fathers for aged dependent children's benefits. As you know, they previously had been available to the children of deceased or deserting fathers, but not to the children of unemployed fathers. There has been a great controversy in my State over whether the State should accept the provision to the amendment and put into effect this ABCU, as it is called. Did California put into effect the ABCU, and how does it work?

Mr. SIMMONS. California did not.

Mr. O'HARA. I suppose you have the same controversy Michigan has. Mr. SIMMONS. Yes, we do. I found that we are an unusual State in the sense that we establish programs, new programs of this kind slowly and with a great deal of thought and deliberation, and a great deal of participation in the policy formation process between State and local governments and perhaps it slows us down more than other States.

Our department is strongly recommending that this program be developed. I say this, and at the same time recognize that there are problems related to it, that the concerns of who may resist the establishment of this program are real and I don't think this program necessarily solves all the problems of public welfare and the unemployed families. It seems to me that government somehow in cooperation with private industry must assume the responsibility which I think it has of providing employment to people, and not relief. I think it is most unsound to continue to develop stopgap programs, and I think that in public assistance one of the basic rights that we think is evident, this comes from Federal laws, that every man has a right to assistance, given certain eligibility requirements.

I think the most basic right is the right to employment, and that our efforts should go to the provisions of employment fully and training programs and so on, which accomplish this, so that our money should rather go to that than to assistance, if I had my way. But this doesn't deny our interest in establishing such programs in the State of California, and we hope that we can at the next session of the legislature. Mr. O'HARA. Thank you, Mr. Simmons. Although I do not take pleasure in the fact that California is in the same position as Michigan in this matter, it gives me some comfort to find that we are not alone. At any rate, thank you very much for your testimony.

Mr. SIMMONS. I thank you.

Mr. O'HARA. The Reverend Wilbur Simmons will be our next witness. If you will identify yourself, Mr. Simmons, we would like to hear your testimony. We would appreciate having copies of your statement.

STATEMENT OF WILBUR SIMMONS, MINISTER, FIRST CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH OF SACRAMENTO, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMISSION ON CHURCHES' RESPONSIBILITY TO OLDER PERSONS OF THE NORTHERN CALIFORNIA COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, CHAIRMAN OF THE DIVISION ON RELIGION OF THE GOVERNOR'S CONFERENCE ON AGING IN CALIFORNIA IN 1960, AND CHAIRMAN OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON AGING, COMMUNITY WELFARE COUNCIL, SACRAMENTO, 1959

Mr. SIMMONS. It may be that my function here can best be served by questions related to my interest in this subject, but I have a brief statement that I want to bring to you stressing the importance of training for leadership in the programs for the aging.

Education for retirement is a major concern in our society today. Knowledge, skills and habits which are already a part of a person's life need to be utilized in retirement whenever possible.

As an illustration, clergymen are fortunate in having interim pastorates, substitute preaching, writing, lecturing, supporting staff relationships, et cetera, in which they continue to use ability developed during the work years of life. This usage of labor and power must be conserved whenever possible.

In the second place, new skills and knowledge must be taught whenever the above principle cannot be observed. Training in new vocations in addition to providing continued usefulness to society adds to the dimension of experience and satisfaction in the life of a person. Thirdly, meaningful avocational training is a necessity in the retiring process. All three of these factors must be faced before retirement, not merely afterward. An illustration, again in the field of religion, is the way in which senior citizens are being used in the work of the church as business managers, musicians, custodians, parish visitors, church papers, editors, et cetera, according to their interests, experience and ability.

So much then for a brief statement about the importance of education for retirement. An immediate concern and perhaps the place where Government can be most helpful is the training of leadership for the aging. When we consider the sharp contrast between our thought and training leaders for children and youth, and our failure to think of leaders for programs for the aging, we bring our thought into focus. Federal and State programs can be designed to supplement and even to guide local efforts. As an illustration you will find attached a description of a homemaker service for the elderly which was done by the California Department of Employment.

I will pause here a minute to suggest that I notice that you have had testimony on this probably beforehand. The Governor's Commission on Aging in the State of California is the outstanding example in the State of the way in which at every level leadership may be enlisted and encouraged by such an effort. Citizens of the State are grateful for this service and anticipate more help, especially in the area of leadership.

Not only should young people be directed to a lifetime of competence as leaders in the field of the aging, but older people can themselves be trained to meet the needs of their age group. The programs of friendly visitors is a single illustration of this emphasis.

And now referring briefly to the Commission on Churches' Responsibility to Older Persons, our commission and the State council of churches this year is working in the following area: (1) a suggested outline of study for the local church club; (2) a bibliography, to a strategy for a council of churches; (3) a study and report on housing; (4) relationship with reference to senior citizens' organizations; (5) training friendly visitors; (6) reaching the unchurched older person; (7) legislation; (8) economic factors and labor; (9) study and effective ministry to people who have lost their strength, especially those confined to rest homes and institutions; and (10) religious education.

You will find attached to this report an example of a preliminary document which is at the moment a part of the work of our commission. Thank you for allowing me to make this brief statement.

Mr. O'HARA. Thank you, Mr. Simmons. I assume you realize that Mr. Fogarty's bill, H.R. 10014, provides for the creation of an advisory commission on the aged.

Mr. SIMMONS. That's right.

Mr. O'HARA. I am interested in hearing your appraisal of the effect the California Governor's commission has had upon the approach to these problems in California. I wanted to ask you, since you are very much involved in the efforts of church groups with regard to the aged, this question.

Do you feel that the efforts of church groups in this field would be materially assisted by the proposed program of assistance for training, demonstration, and research to nonprofit institutions?

Mr. SIMMONS. That is exactly what I am pleading for. Churches sometimes are very slow, hopelessly slow, and there is a function here that the Government certainly can help at this point. We are very much in favor of it and in answer to your first question, the Governor's commission on aging here in the State of California has reached into the churches through my knowledge and activity in a rather effective way. We are very, very happy with this service that has been provided.

Mr. O'HARA. Do you believe, Mr. Simmons, as Dr. Pulley evidently does, that a system of grants on a matching basis to private and public agencies for research and demonstration would have an effect far beyond the amount of money that the Federal Government might invest in it?

Mr. SIMMONS. Absolutely, and I think the principle of matching funds or the demand for support at the local level should be a part of it.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. Giaimo, have you any questions?

Mr. GIAIMO. Just one, Dr. Simmons. I am very much impressed with the background that you have made here on your first page, using the skills that one has already acquired in his lifetime, and then for those who cannot continue to use those, to retrain them into new types of skills that he can use. But I do think that we should be very careful and try to get away from this concept of education for retirement unless we absolutely have to, because isn't one of our problems the fact that with thinking of this magical word "retirement” at age 65, which perhaps no longer fits into our society, or at least should be pushed ahead, for instance, some years beyond 65.