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Now, you pointed out a couple of inadvertent lumbering uses of the primitive areas, but do you know of any other uses of the primitive areas that are any different from the wilderness areas?

Mr. GLASCOCK. I do not think there is any difference in the administration of these two classifications.

I think the only difference in the world is that they are carried on the books differently by the Forest Service. The Forest Service's work is that the primitive areas are listed on the books for reclassification

Senator METCALF. That is right, and I put those regulations in the record yesterday.

Mr. GLASCOCK. Yes, sir. I agree with you completely, Senator.
Senator METCALF. Thank you.

Senator ANDERSON. Any additional questions?

Senator Jordan?

Senator JORDAN. No.

Senator ANDERSON. Thank you very much.

Mr. GLASCOCK. Thank you.

Senator ANDERSON. Mr. Meyering.

STATEMENT OF JOHN R. MEYERING, ASSISTANT EXECUTIVE SECRETARY, SOCIETY OF AMERICAN FORESTERS

Mr. MEYERING. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, I am John R. Meyering, assistant executive secretary, Society of American Foresters, with headquarters in Washington, D.C. We deeply appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee today. We are well aware that the committee has heard volumes on the subject of the wilderness bill. Because of this, and in the interest of time, our statement will be brief.

Since the Society of American Foresters did not testify during earlier Senate hearings on the wilderness bill, I should like to further identify it for your information. We are a professional society of more than 14,000 members, established in 1900, and the only national professional association representing foresters in America. Among the objects of the society as stated in our constitution are 66*** to promote the science, practice and standards of forestry in America." Our members are foresters, professionally educated in the principles of forest land management. They are employed by government and industry; they manage forest lands of all description including wilderness both public and privately owned in every State in the Union. As a group they live and work more closely with this country's forest resources than any other group of professionals in America. They do not only know wilderness lands intimately but understand fully the importance of wilderness preservation.

Thus, the Society of American Foresters through its members recognizes the need for and values of wilderness. The society has long studied and supported the wilderness cause. For example, 25 years ago, in November 1938 the society in a mail referendum defined general standards for classification and management of wilderness areas. Those standards exist today, as they did then, in close harmony with U.S. Forest Service policy.

Therefore, your committee may be interested to know the results of a mail referendum held in December 1961, expressing the opinion of members of the society on a concept involved in this current wilderness legislation.

A total of 4,235 members, 71 percent of the voters, approved the principle that wilderness areas should continue to be established by executive action of the Secretaries of the Federal departments that are administratively responsible for the establishment of present and potential areas suitable for wilderness preservation.

Less than 29 percent, 1,693 of those voting approved the proposition that wilderness areas should be included in a wilderness preservation system by act of the Congress.

Senator ANDERSON. May I stop there to ask you if this then means that your society is opposed

Mr. MEYERING. I'm sorry, I did not hear that.

Senator ANDERSON. Is opposed to what has been many times suggested, that these areas be established by affirmative acts of the Congress and not by executive acts of the Secretary?

Mr. MEYERING. Yes, sir; that is correct.

In summary, therefore, the Society of American Foresters supports wholeheartedly the concept of wilderness preservation. Our support is based on 63 years of firsthand working knowledge of wilderness and its values to society. We are furthermore generally satisfied with the present method of wilderness area establishment. Therefore, we oppose the proposed wilderness act, S. 4, as being unnecessary. Mr. Chairman, we appreciate this opportunity to appear before you.

Senator ANDERSON. Any questions?

Senator NELSON. Yes, I have a question.

In your view, what damage would result from the enactment of the wilderness legislation?

Mr. MEYERING. Sir, I do not know as I could say that there would be any damage resulting from it.

I do not believe that this is the intention of the referendum which we held, to propose that, on the one hand, it would be all good and, on the other hand, that there would be any damage.

The referendum simply asked the membership which of these two— may I just read the ballot to you? And this might clarify this thing for you.

The ballot, which was voted on December 1, 1961, asked the membership to vote on one of two of the following propositions:

First, wilderness areas should continue to be established by executive action of the Secretaries of the Federal departments that are administratively responsible for the establishment of present and potential areas suitable for wilderness preservation.

The second and only other alternative was wilderness areas now established should be included in the wilderness preservation system by act of Congress with specifications as to the uses and with provisions, deletions, and the designation of new areas.

Senator NELSON. Is it your judgment that under the present authority the executive departments could do everything that is proposed in this bill?

Mr. MEYERING. I do not know as I could say "yes" to that.

I could say that under the present circumstances the executive department under the present system is able to maintain wilderness areas adequately, and is able to include more areas as they become obviously needed and usable for wilderness, and that in the event of national emergency or other pressing events, that they are in at position to act quickly to declassify the area.

Senator ANDERSON. Yes.

Senator NELSON. I just do not know what power the executive branch has in this respect.

I was commenting on what you said here. Let's assume here for a moment that they had that power, would you object that the executive branch, or if the executive branch proceeded to do everything that is proposed in this bill?

Would you have any objection to that?

Mr. MEYERING. That covers a lot of ground, sir, "everything that is in the bill."

So, I do not know.

Senator NELSON. Thank you.

Senator ANDERSON. I want to compliment the witness on testifying to what his association did and holding himself to that. That was very fine. Thank you very much.

Mr. MEYERING. Thank you, sir.

Senator ANDERSON. Mr. Roberts?

Senator JORDAN. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Roberts is a neighbor of mine from the State of Idaho, and I would like to say a few words about him. Before I do, Mr. Chairman, I should like to ask unanimous consent to have entered into the record House Joint Memorial No. 3, enacted by the 37th session of the Legislature of the State of Idaho, the 9th of January 1963, having to do with wilderness legislation, generally in opposition to excessive wilderness designation.

I shall not read it if I have permission to have it inserted in the record at this point.

Senator ANDERSON. Without objection, that will be done. (The document referred to follows:)

A JOINT MEMORIAL OF THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF IDAHO

To the Honorable Senate and House of Representatives of the United States in Congress assembled:

We, your memorialists, the Legislature of the State of Idaho, respectfully represent that:

Whereas approximately two-thirds of the land area of the State of Idaho is federally owned and contains approximately 34 million acres set aside for primitive and proposed wilderness areas; and

Whereas the economy of the State of Idaho is based upon its agriculture, forest products, mining, sheep and cattle industries, and the use of its waters for irrigation and hydroelectric power; and

Whereas excessively large and unmanageable primitive and wilderness designations are very restrictive to full utilization and do not permit the Federal Government to develop wisely the natural resources of the State of Idaho for the continuation and expansion of its natural resource industries; and

Whereas one of the great potential industries of the State of Idaho is its growing tourist trade and wildlife attractions; and

Whereas the denial of ready access to these areas to the tourist trade, to the citizens of Idaho and to industry is detrimental to the State's present and future growth and prosperity; and

Whereas water supply, game habitat, forest productivity and recreational opportunities for all are increased with good forest management in contrast to the very limited use of wilderness areas; and

Whereas the State of Idaho needs the development of lands and its resources to create a broader base for its taxing units and to increase employment for its people: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the House of Representatices, State of Idaho, the senate concurring, That we are most respectfully opposed to the dedication of additional lands as primitive or wilderness type areas in the State of Idaho and respectfully request that all primitive and wilderness areas in the State of Idaho be reviewed and studied to determine and establish their greatest use potential; and be it further

Resolved, That we oppose Federal enactment of legislation, and existing rule and regulation designating authority, embodying the principle of establishing excessive wilderness areas of limited use which would deny to the natural resource industries, including recreation, the right to develop wisely natural resources and would also be to the detriment of the people of the State of Idaho and the Nation; and be it further

Resolved, That the present agencies administering all Federal lands do so with the view of developing the full multiple use of the lands to further the general welfare and the economy of the State of Idaho and the Nation; and be it further

Resolved, That the secretary of state of the State of Idaho be authorized and he is hereby directed to immediately forward certified copies of this memorial to the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, the Secretary of Interior, the Secretary of Agriculture, and to the Senators and Representatives in Congress from this State; and be it further

Resolved, that the secretary of state of the State of Idaho be authorized and he is hereby directed to immediately forward certified copies of this memorial to the speaker of the house and to the president of the Senate of the following States: Washington, Oregon, California, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, North Dakota, and South Dakota, and that these States are hereby urged to take similar action in their respective legislative bodies.

Senator JORDAN. Now, Mr. Chairman, Art Roberts is a man of many parts. He presently is serving as mayor of the city of McCall.

He is a member of the Natural Resources Committee of the Idaho Chamber of Commerce. I think he is speaking in behalf of them and others today. He is the chief fire warden in the Southern Idaho Timber Protective Association and an active conservationist in that respect. He is a member of the board of directors and a past president. He is a member of the executive committee of the American Municipal Association.

He is also a member of the board of directors and past president of the Western Forestry and Conservation Association.

I have worked with him in my position as Governor back through the years, and I know that he is a dedicated conservationist, and I commend him to you.

Senator ANDERSON. Thank you, Senator, and I want to say to you, Mr. Roberts, that this is fine praise from a highly respected member of this committee. You may proceed, sir.

STATEMENT OF ARTHUR M. ROBERTS, NATURAL RESOURCES COMMITTEE, STATE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, MCCALL, IDAHO

Mr. ROBERTS. Thank you, sir, and thank you, Senator.

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am Arthur M. Roberts of McCall, Idaho. I represent the village of McCall, Idaho, as mayor; the Southern Timber Protective Association as chief fire warden; and this statement has been endorsed by the following organizations.

The Inland Empire Multiple Use Committee, Lewiston; Idaho Mining Association, Boise; Associated Industries of Idaho, Boise; Idaho

Cattle Feeders Association, Boise; Idaho Farm Bureau Federation, Pocatello Associated Taxpayers of Idaho, Boise; Idaho State Grange, Caldwell; Idaho Motor Transpirt Association, Boise; Idaho Cattlemen's Association, Boise; Idaho Wool Growers Association, Boise; Idaho State Reclamation Association, Boise; Idaho Beet Growers Association, Weiser; Idaho State Chamber of Commerce, Boise; North Idaho Forestry Association; South Idaho Forestry Association; Boise Cascade Corp., Boise; Idaho Municipal League, Boise.

Local chambers of commerce of Boise, Gooding, Caldwell, Preston, Orofino, Nampa, Idaho Falls, Twin Falls, Ruppert, Weiser, and St. Anthony have also endorsed the statement. In addition to these the Lewiston Idaho Chamber of Commerce submits the following letter for the record, which reads in part:

The executive board of this chamber authorizes Arthur M. Roberts to say that our position in this matter is that we “ask that the Congress of the United States do consider carefully before committing more of the public land in Idaho to permanent wilderness classification."

MARVIN H. WICKLUND, President.
HARRY HUGHES, Secretary.

Since the Senate hearing 2 years ago on S. 174, several changes have occurred in Idaho, as in the Nation, which have had some effect on our position with regard to this wilderness bill.

First, the Idaho Legislature by a vote of 49 to 12 in the house of representatives and a unanimous vote in the senate has approved the memorial which has been filed with the committee and which asks the Congress of the United States to consider carefully before committing more of the public land in Idaho to permanent wilderness classification. This memorial expresses opposition to the existing rule and regulation designating authority, embodying the principle of establishing excessive wilderness areas of limited use which deny the right to develop wisely all natural resources including recreation. The memorial asks further that Federal agencies presently administering public lands, do so with a view to developing the full multiple use of the lands.

Idaho now has a dedicated wilderness area of approximately 1,140,000 acres.

That is 100,000 acres less than the total area of the Selway-Bitterroot.

Two years ago there was none in Idaho. As a result of this dedication, the acreage in Idaho's primitive areas has been cut from well over 3 million to about 1,725,000 acres. Another 200,000 acres of primitive area has been proposed as dedicated wilderness by the Forest Service. This is the Sawtooth primitive area, and the wilderness proposal calls for an area of 192,000 acres in permanent wilderness classification.

These changes result in Idaho now having something over 14 percent of the dedicated wilderness area in the United States. Idaho is left with 21 percent of the primitive area in the country. This primitive area will immediately be classified as dedicated wilderness with the passage of S. 4. This dedication would classify 2,863,000 acres in Idaho as wilderness. This is equal to 14 percent of the National Forests land in the State.

This is a figure which we may compare to the 8 percent of the total national forests lands which would be in wilderness areas in the

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