well. Physical restrictions in regard to space lead to competition with established departments for the limited number of available offices and laboratories, thus presenting an obstacle to the initiation of geriatric research. The guaranteed support of long-term projects could not be expected to yield immediate results, but the expense would be fully justified in terms of longtime gains. In geriatrics and gerontology, as in all sciences, basic research is the firm foundation upon which future applications rest.-Lissy F. Jarvik.

To my knowledge the handling for requests for research funds has been done efficiently, conscientiously, and objectively.—Robert B. Johnston.

Here I must break my flow of thought to insert that I believe the present structure for dispersal of National Institutes of Health funds provides some greatness, too. It sets a standard for research so that it is difficult to make old mistakes. It has cultured science with a breadth and geographic dispersity that anticipated our urgent need for scientific growth as a nation. At its best our present system allows the random discovery and growth of scientifically elite persons who would not as likely be found in less dispersed systems for support of science.-Hardin B. Jones.

The only direct contact I have had in applying for a grant has been with the National Institutes of Health. My colleagues and I found this agency helpful, understanding, and effectively organized in our dealings with them. Especially were we impressed with the use of professional persons from the country at large. Max Kaplan.

I feel in general that governmental support for aging research is adequate at the present time and that it will remain adequate if it grows at the same rate as support for other scientific activities. The more immediately practical findings will probably be made in the field of social gerontology as research in that area is directed toward the actual problems of older people. Similarly, rapid advances can be expected in the field of physical medicine and rehabilitation. In basic biological research, my own area, I believe progress will be slower and the eventual practicality is difficult to predict at present. However, basic research will certainly lead to a better understanding of changes underlying senescence and may eventually result in prolongation of healthy life.-Robert R. Kohn.

It would be convenient for grant applicants if the procedures connected with the preparation of applications and progress reports were not changed as frequently as has been done. Several weeks are usually needed to prepare an appropriate report and the study of the changes in procedure requires much energy and close attention.-John E. Kirk.

I believe that the present grant program as it is carried out by the National Institutes of Health is well conceived and admirably executed so as to bring about maximum research results within the present framework. There are, however, certain inherent difficulties in any grant program. In the first place, the initiation of a request for a grant depends almost entirely upon the individual investigator. This, of course, has the important advantage of preserving scientific freedom and avoiding the dangers of fettering research with complete governmental domination. On the other hand, it does relatively little to encourage the development of certain necessary research besides providing money in certain broad specified areas. When only limited amounts of money are available, this is not a major problem, for grant applications will far exceed the money available, thus allowing relatively great selectivity in making the awards.

However, as more money becomes available for research, more planning becomes necessary to utilize scarce manpower and facilities in the most effective way. Such planning, I believe, is particularly important in the field of aging,

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which is a relatively new research area and therefore less likely to receive the attention it deserves from established researchers.

The purpose of planning would be to direct the attention of researchers to important problem areas and to encourage them to embark upon this reaserch with assurances of adequate long-term financial support. In effect this could lead to the establishment of well-equipped and staffed laboratories operating with a measure of the same stability as that enjoyed by the NIH intramural research programs.-Robert W. Kleemeier.

I am not certain that there is a need for improving governmental procedure, grant, and public investments in aging research. I believe that the problem we face in this field as well as in most research fields is one of encouragement of young people to go into a career of scientific investigation. This requires some reasonable insurance that such a career will financially be rewarding. Although most of the research grants provide adequate funds for technical personnel, supplies, equipment, and other items, they do not provide for the salaries of the investigators involved. Our greatest basic needs for improving our research in various fields is the development of trained creative minds.-Ross C. Kory.

I do not feel competent to comment on the social science research aspects of geriatric research. It is my impression that the major emphasis has indeed been placed in this area. These problems are indeed more obvious and immediately pressing than the medicobiological oresearch aspects. However, it is hoped that the long-term gains will be made in the latter field. Adequate simultaneous support in this area, therefore, appears essential. It is my impression that the USPHS procedure for awarding grants has proved satisfactory. The limitations apear to be imposed primarily by the funds appropriated. In our own experience, the principal problem in grant application procedure has been the meeting of deadlines for receipt of the applications in Bethesda because of the average 3-month delay at the State university level for purely administrative procedures between the time the application leaves our office until it is forwarded to Bethesda from the office of the president of the University of California. The procedures followed during this 3-month interval by the various university officers involve little more than the formalities of approval by various administrative officers and the board of regents. I believe that investigators would be aided if more direct communication, including the filing of applications, could be authorized between the investigator and the granting agencies, with the notation on such negotiations that they are subject to evenual approval by the appropriate administrative authorities.-N. B. Kurnick.

The granting procedure is complicated by redtape. Most granting agencies in the United States are being overloaded with administrative staff. The granting of funds can only be decided by scientists and the administration should be reduced to a minimum.-C. P. Leblond.

In my opinion, the Government procedures for awarding grants for research, especially through the National Institutes of Health, is excellent. Adequate funds are available, the panel members passing on the grants are well qualified, objective, and fair, and the procedures are very good indeed. I am on a panel at the National Institutes of Health in the field of accidents and I believe that the procedures followed, in general, are very good.-Ross McFarland.

A need for improving the governmental procedure regarding grants in aging research. I see no need at present of any marked change.-Donald Mainland.

I do not know how much money is now being expended for such research by the Federal Government nor do I know accurately how it is being distributed. While

I have done some research in this field I have neither sought nor received any grants from Government except most indirectly.—Paul B. Maves.

The procedure might be improved simply by either broadening the scope of NIH and NIMH activity and by informing social scientists that they can submit proposals for social science projects as such. These agencies have made grants for social science research, but the design of proposals is restricted by the health focus of the agencies work.-J. W. McConnell and Fred Slavick.

I believe that the investment of governmental grants for studies in aging has been adequate. As the caliber of the research in both the medical-biological and in the social aspect rises, and the need for more and better research will become evident, the governmental investments will, of necessity, have to be increased.William Montagna.

For the time being, the Center for Aging Research of the National Institutes of Health is doing a very satisfactory job of processing grants and allocating funds. This conceivably could be amplified in future by a coordination with other types of foundations and public investments.-Matthew T. Moore.

Government should try hard to keep procedures of fund awards as simple and nonwasteful of anyone's time as possible. NIH has been in recent years most considerate in this regard.-Robert W. Mowry.

No.-Elizabeth Moyer.

I answer "Yes" to this question as a continuation of the above discussion. One means of greatly improving the situation would be the development of some structure for the granting of funds for social science research in its own right in which social scientists would participate. In particular, funds for the establishment of research centers which are interdisciplinary and which could be used by the institutions awarded the grants in a general fashion would be very useful. Such "developmental" grants could help universities establish research centers, staff them, and commence research and training programs. I am thinking now of the recent experience of an excellent proposal of this sort which was rejected by the National Institutes of Health because it was not health oriented enough to satisfy the criteria of the Institutes. This involves the commitment of public funds to the goal of social science research in the field.-Harold L. Orbach.

One suggestion was made, urging the establishment of a limited number of centers for research on aging. These would draw investigators from other fields who might never have considered this an area for their investigative talents. Care should be exercised in awarding grants to any center established on a university campus to insure that the grant does not unduly specialize the whole research program of the university.-Harold F. Osborne.

I have been impressed with the governmental procedures for handling grants in aging research and especially the reports which have come out in the field of gerontology and aging in general. I cannot suggest any improvement.-Dorothy Price.

Longitudinal studies, such as those involved in the biological aspects of aging, require long-term support to assure an adequate return to the U.S. Public Health Service, the public, and the scientists actually performing the research.

Short-term support, for periods of less than 5 years, hardly permits an aging study to get underway. Research grants for this type of research should be for not less than 10 years with renewal reviews each year so that the grant would always cover a 10-year period. Should the governmental agency no longer wish to continue the financial support, there still would be adequate time (i.e., 9 years) to plan for a sensible termination of the study.-Ernest Retzlaff.

Recognizing that there are profound political questions involved I nevertheless feel that a large part of the medical care costs of our geriatric population will have to be born by Government. If this program should perhaps evolve into a vast expansion of the Public Health Service the means would be at hand for accumulation of vast amounts of data concerning normal aging as opposed to pathologic change in the human subject. Thus, a central agency approach may ultimately arise as a necessary consequence of growth in size and complexity of the aging problem.-John Robert Ring.

As indicated above, it is essential to initiate a policy of long-range commitment of funds, through a centralized system, such as a National Institute of Gerontology. Study sections on aging per se should be established under the present organization of the National Institutes of Health, in the meantime.-Morris Rockstein.

Aside from increasing the time for projects to run, I feel there is nothing wrong with the present method. I feel that the granting agency should investigate the physical plant and personnel before making the grant.-James B. Rogers.

Most of the Government-sponsored research in the field of aging seems to be under the auspices of the National Institutes of Health. There is some evidence that the NIH is somewhat "ingrown," with the same persons serving on more than one committee and the committees deciding on grants having an insufficient turnover of personnel. There is a constant need for fresh ideas and new points of view in research on aging, and it seems to me that the NIH does not sufficiently satisfy this need at present. Perhaps a new research fund-granting organization is called for, if the need cannot be met within the present structure of NIH.Arnold M. Rose.

It would be simpler if all grants for gerontological research could be handled through a central source. The establishment of an Institute of Gerontology would facilitate matters. Currently, proposals are often reviewed by specialist groups who seem to have little familiarity with the literature and special problems of aging research.-K. Warner Schaie.

There is a need for governmental procedure of grants and public investments in aging research. One way to accomplish even more would be to encourage participation of private institutions, communities, and States similarly as pointed out under No. 1 and to replace possibly the present principle of grants by sharing contracts.-Henry P. Schwarz.

Speaking of the NIH research grant procedures, we believe that an effective system of research grant review and approval has been evolved which assures an equitable distribution of research grant money to individual research projects of scientific merit including those projects in the field of aging. However, with the rapid increase in the level of research funds, NIH has recognized the need for new approaches to the support of research in addition to the support of individual research projects. Program grants are now being provided for the support of sizable integrated research endeavors. Aging research was one of the first fields to receive this broader form of research support. In 1957, the National Institutes of Health provided support to Duke University for a large

scale interdisciplinary research activity in aging. A second such activity was established at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in 1958. Recently, the third of these was established at Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. It is anticipated that more of these interdisciplinary research programs in aging will be established at selected locations throughout the country.

A new program of grants for support of clinical research centers was established by NIH in fiscal year 1960 and is being expanded in fiscal year 1961. These grants provide support for general, clinical, and metabolic research centers including support for beds, diagnostic and treatment facilities, as well as the necessary supportive and staff services for research patient care, and fully equipped research laboratories. It is quite likely that a program of research in aging could receive this type of support in the future.

Further diversity has been added to the NIH grant program by the passage of an act (Public Law 86-798) authorizing a program of institutional research grants which will provide institutions, such as medical schools, dental schools, and schools of public health, with general support for their research and research training program. While this program will not specifically support research in aging, it is a further indication of the evolution of NIH grant mechanisms in response to changing needs. As we acquire a better understanding of the processes and problems of aging, still different grant forms akin to the title V provisions of the mental health program may be warranted.--James A. Shannon.

In order to meet these needs, training programs must be supported in all scientific disciplines to provide additional investigators. In addition to training in all the basic sciences, attention should be given to the special needs of gerontology; viz, (1) Federal funds should be made available to hold planning conferences and workshops to develop teaching materials in all aspects of aging; (2) the program of training grants in gerontology to individuals in key institutions should be expanded; (3) research fellowships in gerontology (in the physical, biological, behavioral, and medical sciences), including opportunities for the exchange of investigators between the United States and foreign countries should be supported; and (4) universities and medical schools should be given long-term grants to aid in establishing chairs of gerontology.-Nathan Shock.

There seems to be no need to improve the governmental procedures of research grants on aging as presently practiced. Because of lack of information on the policies of public investments, no comment can be made on this point. However, generally speaking, there should be as little reduplication as possible of support for similar projects carried out at various institutions. Moreover, it seems desirable to allocate funds for the creation of new and smaller research centers rather than for the expansion of already existing facilities. This would guarantee a greater degree of individualization and would most likely create new approaches and permit new ideas to be tested.-Martin Silberberg.

So far as I know, the present governmental procedure for grants has been developed over a number of years and on the whole is functioning, in my opinion, extremely well. The staffs of the various Institutes make themselves available for advice, although I believe they are often short handed; grant requests are reviewed with great care; and every effort is made to support worthwhile projects presented to the various study committees. One of the principal problems is to interest research personnel in the aging field. There are very few psychiatrists who have a specific interest in this area. It is only by developing an expanding nucleus of good projects and by enticing young psychiatrists through enthusiastic leadership that additional personnel can be attracted to this field, personnel who could themselves then initiate new research efforts.

I believe there should be a greater investment in block grants to individuals as well as institutions to carry on research in the fields of their specific competence, and that such money should be given to such individuals over a sufficiently long period of time (at least 5 to 7 years) so that they can be assured of continuity. Such grants need not be tied to a specific project, once the investigator has established a reputation for being competent.-Alexander Simon.