Senator CAPEHART. But I sit around here all day long and all I hear is politics being played in this matter by referring to the Douglas bill or the administration bill, and that the administration bill is weak in this respect and the Douglas bill is strong in this respect. Why do we not stop setting them apart here, and let us listen to everybody and get the best points from all of the witnesses to make up the best bill we can, instead of playing politics.

I invite the cooperation of the chairman to that end.
Senator DOUGLAS. We will cooperate.

Senator CAPEHART. So we can write a bill here to get this job done regardless of politics, or who is the author.

Senator DOUGLAS. That is the heartfelt desire of the Senator from Illinois, and if this is the desire of the Senator from Indiana he will find no more willing cooperator than the Senator from Illinois. Senator CAPEHART. Thank you.

Mr. ANDERSON. May I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I also wish to thank Mr. Schnitzler for giving me his time.

(The material referred to in Congressman Anderson's statement follows:)

A JOINT MEMORIAL OF THE SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE STATE OF MONTANA TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES; SENATOR JAMES E. MURRAY, OF MONTANA; SENATOR MIKE MANSFIELD, OF MONTANA; CONGRESSMAN LEE METCALF, OF MONTANA; CONGRESSMAN LEROY ANDERSON, of Montana; THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE; THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, AND THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR, FREDERICK B. SEATON; REQUESTING THAT MONEYS MADE AVAILABLE TO ECONOMIC-DEPRESSED AREAS BE UTILIZED IN PROMOTING EMPLOYMENT OF INDIAN CITIZENS AT OR NEAR RESERVATION AREAS IN THE STATE OF MONTANA, AND PROMOTING JOB OPPORTUNITIES AT OR NEAR RESERVATION AREAS

Whereas there has been made available by the Congress of the United States certain moneys to assist in the alleviation of unemployment in economic-depressed areas in the United States; and

Whereas on all of the reservation areas within the State of Montana there are serious unemployment and welfare problems; and

Whereas, unless special attention is given to these problems through endorsement by the State and National Governments to get industry decentralized to these areas, there is no immediate hope to assist Indian citizens become economically self-sufficient; and

Whereas, because of the lack of economic opportunities at or near the reservation areas, it has been necessary to transplant many Montana Indian citizens away from their homes and their families; and

Whereas, because of the lack of economic opportunities on the reservations of Montana, the welfare burden on Federal and State Governments is disproportionate to that of the rest of the population of Montana : Now, therefore, be it Resolved, by the Thirty-fifth Legislative Assembly of Montana of 1957, now in session, the Senate and House of Representatives concurring, do recommend to the Congress of the United States that funds be made available to promote industries to locate on the various reservations of the State of Montana or to locate as near as possible to the reservations to offer job opportunities to Indian citizens of the State of Montana; be it further

Resolved, That copies of this memorial be submitted by the secretary of the State of Montana to the Congress of the United States, Senator James E. Murray and Senator Mike Mansfield, of Montana, Congressman Lee Metcalf and Congressman LeRoy Anderson, of Montana, the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs of the United States Senate, the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs of the United States House of Representatives, and to the Honorable Frederick B. Seaton, Secretary of the Interior.

PAUL CANNON,

President of the Senate. EUGENE H. MAHONEY,

Speaker of the House.

[From Commerce and Industry, fourth quarter, 1956]

MONTANA'S GREATEST ASSET IS ITS HUMAN RESOURCES, ITS MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE HEALTHY AND HAPPY-WHO LOVE THE COUNTRY IN WHICH THEY LIVE

Timber, minerals, rich farmlands, cattle and sheep, with plenty of water, power, and fuel are all to be found at Blackfeet Indian Reservation.

The Blackfeet Tribal Business Council of the Blackfeet Indian Reservation extends an invitation to industrial leaders to come to the Blackfeet Indian Reservation for a complete examination of its advantages for industry.

Here in this northern Montana community you will find all the advantages that are offered in any section of the Northwest, plus the advantage of a labor pool of 1,500 men and 500 women who are readily adaptable to any skills.

These men were born and brought up on the reservation. They are adept in the skills of leathercraft, masonry, carpentry, woodworking, metal working and other skills. The women excel in weaving, sewing, and the various arts. They make good bookkeepers, timekeepers, typists, secretaries, etc.

The Blackfeet Reservation contains 1,500,000 acres of rich lands, with 4 streams yielding a large water supply and a still larger supply yet untapped by constructing a dam that would not only supply 100,000 acre-feet of water but would generate a vast amount of cheap electricity. There is an unlimited reserve of natu ral gas and oil, hard minerals, varied crops of grains, alfalfa, fine grazing lands, and timber for sawmills or plup wood plants. Locally owned sheep and cattle would supply a good meat-packing industry. Wool processing demands further study.

Running through the center of the community is the Great Northern Railway, with direct service to the west coast and the Middle West as well as the South and the rich Canadian markets. Also, an air terminal, serving North. East, South, and West. Highways U. S. 2 and U. S. 89, as well as State roads, also provide fast communication by auto, bus, and truck.

Bordering the reservation is America's greatest playground-Glacier National Park, providing one of the best recreational areas in the country.

Free plantsite for industries. The Blackfeet Tribe will provide a plantsite for your industry without charge and will provide workers who will eliminate expensive labor-turnover. Write for full details, or better yet, arrange to come here for a personal inspection of our resources. You will find our people friendly, cooperative, and intelligent.

Write chairman or secretary: Blackfeet Tribal Business Council of the Blackfeet Indian Reseration, Browning, Mont.

Council members: Walter S. Wetzel, chairman; George G. Kipp, vice chairman; Iliff McKay, secretary; Peter Redhorn, Jr., public relations officer; Henry Magee, land committee chairman; Earl Old Person, Joe Kipp, Ace Armstrong, Joe Show, William Tailfeathers, Donald Wetzel, Robert LaFromboise, Archie St. Goddard.

Senator DOUGLAS. Mr. Schnitzler, we must apologize to you. You have been very gracious in consenting to put off answering some questions.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM F. SCHNITZLER, SECRETARY-TREASURER; ACCOMPANIED BY GEORGE D. RILEY, LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE; AND FRANK L. FERNBACH, RESEARCH DEPARTMENT, AFL-CIO-Resumed

Mr. SCHNITZLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator DOUGLAS. You have heard this colloquy we have had as to whether we should try to shift business and employment from one area to another, or whether we should try to increase the overall volume of production, employment, and consumption so that all areas would do better. Which do you think should be the purpose of the bill?

Mr. SCHNITZLER. Mr. Chairman, this is a specialized problem. The thing about this problem that is so particularly exciting to me is that no matter whom I talk to, no matter where they come from, or what

their station in life may be, they all agree it is a problem and something must be done. That has been our feeling for a long time.

As I said earlier, we originally concerned ourselves with these communities that found themselves up against this problem. We had to do something immediately. As you keep talking about it more and more, you find there are a lot of other things that enter into it. For instance, rural redevelopment. That was not part of our major thought.

We wanted to correct something that needed correcting, and we find here is an opportunity for men of good will to expend their time, energy, and effort to help those who are in no position to help themselves.

Then we run into problems of dislocation caused by imports where it involves a single factory rather than a whole industry.

All of these things enter into it. This entire discussion, Mr. Chairman, brought out the good in men to try to do something to help other men. I think what we have before us right now is a sort of minimum program-a starting program.

The Congressman from Pennsylvania said something about a compromise. I read the administration bill, and I know the feelings in the AFL-CIO are that a good compromise at this point would be the Douglas bill. I offer that as a suggestion if we are talking about compromise.

Senator DOUGLAS. I hope the Senator from Indiana will not correct you for using the terms "administration bill" and "Douglas bill." Mr. SCHNITZLER. Well, we are getting down to the point of talking about a bill that has no politics in it, and how we are going to write a bill by politicians without some little discussion of politics, I do not know.

Senator CAPEHART. Will you yield a moment?

Mr. SCHNITZLER. Yes, sir.

Senator CAPEHART. Senator Bush just worked out in longhand the difference in amounts between the two bills in question. The Douglas' bill loan fund is $200 million; the Martin bill is $50 million. Federal participation under the Douglas bill is 75 percent; under the Martin bill it is 35 percent. On public-facilities loans Douglas' bill has $75 million, and the administration or Martin bill has nothing. We already have a law on utilities that we can use for this purpose if we want to instead of the $75 million here.

Then you have public-facilities grants of $50 million. I do not know what that is. On Federal procurement Douglas says yes, and the Martin bill has not any. On the supplemental unemployment compensation the Douglas bill says yes, and the Martin bill evidently has nothing on the subject.

Administration of the program under the Douglas bill would be a new department, and under the Martin bill it would be the Department of Commerce.

Technical assistance under the Douglas bill is $4 million and under the Martin bill is $1,250,000.

Both bills propose to do the job by loaning X amounts of money to certain distressed areas.

I just want to say this: 37 years ago the first sales job I had as a youngster 21 years old, when I got out of World War I, was the territory in Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I re

member on the first trip I made I went up to Holton, Hancock, and Calumet, and that section. At that time they were beginning to be ghost towns. About 3 or 4 out of every 6 homes were closed up, and most of the business establishments were closed up.

I was not able to sell anything. I could not sell a nickel's worth of merchandise. Why? Why? Because there was nobody working and no jobs and no job opportunities there. That impressed me very, very much. That was 37 years ago, and there were ghost towns. The thing that made them ghost towns was lack of jobs. If there had been plenty of jobs, there would have been plenty of trade.

The only way in the world to cure that situation was to find new job opportunities, or have somebody create employment. If anyone could have done that, whether it was one man or a group of men, people would have gone back to work and there would have been a prosperous town and trade. You always get a lot of trade when there are a lot of jobs, and you always get a lot of jobs when there is a lot of trade.

I am very much interested in this and I have always been interested in this sort of thing. I am trying to find a formula that will really cure it, that will really help the situation. You only help if you create jobs. For example, as a manufacturer, I know the slow process of trying to find new industries for those towns that have never produced that sort of thing before. That is a very, very slow process.

I think it ought to be used, but I am not so sure but what the quickest and best way to do this is to encourage, through financial help, factories to move into these spots.

Mr. SCHNITZLER. Mr. Senator, you can make that sound so difficult that it would appear there would be no solution whatsoever. I hope something we say may make some contribution to this overall discussion.

The chairman asked a question a few moments ago as to whether we would have to raise jobs for the entire economy. That is an entirely different question and we are not concerned with that, I think, as far as this committee is concerned. We are faced with a growing population and an expanding economy. We are in a very fortunate position at the moment to be able to discuss this problem that we now have in this kind of national atmosphere.

We are talking about people who do not have jobs. We are talking about people who have no hope of jobs because there is nothing in their community for them. The easiest thing to do is say, "Well, why don't you pick up and move?" We had heard a whole lot of that. During the war years members of our unions considered it part of their patriotic contribution to move to where the job had to be done, and they did that. There was a temporary dislocation. Nobody knew how long the war was going to go on--but they had to create these munitions and they went ahead and did it, and when it was finished they went back to their families.

You cannot tell a man who was born in a town, and who has a generation or two of people before him who have lived in that same town, to go out of the town and go gypsying out of the county and go looking for something. What is he going to do with his family? We are not that kind of people. We have to take into consideration the feelings of human beings; and this is a problem we have to do something about.

We can take the approach that it is too big a problem and we cannot handle it. But the approach has to be the other way. We know in some of your cities in Indiana there is a lot of help needed. Certain communities in Indiana are off the list for a while and then they go back on it a little later.

Senator CAPEHART. Only Terre Haute, Clinton, Sullivan, and sometimes Evansville.

Mr. SCHNITZLER. There are some more, I believe.

Mr. FERNBACH. Might I add-in the current list Evansville is also included as a major area; and of the minor, smaller areas, there are Michigan City, La Porte, Muncie, Vincennes, and Richmond, which is becoming a particular problem because of the withdrawal of International Harvester.

Senator DOUGLAS. What about Elwood?

Mr. FERNBACH. That is not currently on the list.

Mr. SCHNITZLER. We have had this problem with the local unions of our affiliated international unions, where unemployment crops up in a town because of a loss of industry in a town and membership starts writing the international office asking where there are some job opportunities. Through the international offices they will write them that there are probably 3 or 4 towns here where right at the moment there seem to be some jobs.

This is constantly going on. They will move to this other city; then you have a dislocation; and the next thing that comes up is moving the family to that town. Here is the family waiting in one town and the breadwinner is in another town. We all know about the double cost of maintaining two homes-and it is done more and more before he packs up and goes back, dissatisfied and disgruntled and feeling nobody in the world wants to help him.

So if we look at this we have to look at it in these spots where there is a basic problem. After analyzing it from the experience we have, we do not see how you can do it other than through a specialized

agency.

It may surprise you to know there is a constant flood of public relations or whatever you call these lads that are hired by towns and who run around the country to see what they can bring in to the town that may furnish some employment. They have all kinds of propositions to make; all kinds of wild schemes; all sorts of promises.

Whenever word gets out in the newspapers that an industry is considering expansion because they want greater distribution of products, they are immediately hounded by everybody who has some kind of proposition for them.

Now, if I were the mayor of a community, I would like to be able to go into a Government agency manned by men who know all about these things and be able to sit down and lay all of the problems of my town before them and talk about the geography and talk about location and talk about the reasons why somebody had left, and make sure that the atmosphere is proper and correct and get to know as much as they could know about this problem. Also while we are representing industry, they could say they were thinking of building a new plant, or additional facilities, or branching out and expanding. I would want to sit down with men in the Government agency who know the entire country and discuss the problem and say, "If you have this kind of industry available it would fit people in this locality