Mr. PRANGER. As of July 1, 1969, there were assigned to the Joint U.S. Military Aid Group Greece-JUSMAGG-45 officers and 24 enlisted men for a total of 69. In addition there were 11 U.S. civilians also assigned. Senator PELL. Is that officers and enlisted men? Mr. PRANGER. Officers, enlisted, and civilians are assigned to the Joint U.S. Military Aid Group Greece-JUSMAGG. In addition there are about [deleted] DOD personnel assigned to Greece. Senator PELL. In toto we have around 3,500 people? Mr. PRANGER. 3,546, as of July 1, 1969. Senator PELL. How does that number compare with the number there before the coup? Mr. PRANGER. I do not know, but we will put it in the record. I would suspect that it would amount to approximately the same lessMr. ROCKWELL. There has been a reduction, the exact amount of the reduction I do not know, but it has been reduced. EFFECT OF REDUCTION OF U.S. PERSONNEL Senator PELL. One of the thoughts that goes through my mind is that, if there had been a more substantial reduction of personnel, there would be also a feeling in Greece that our Government is not standing shoulder to shoulder with the present regime. When I talked with, as I know you have, Mr. Rockwell, Greeks over here and Greeks who go back to Greece, you find them all of the opinion, at least the ones I have spoken to, that their compatriots identify us with the regime. They know that the State Department rather disapproves of them and a few of us in the Congress rather disapprove of them, but their compatriots do not view the American Government as disapproving of the junta. That is the basic point I am driving at and this amendment, inconvenient as it may be, would underline that point in big broad black lines. This is what I am trying to emphasize here. Mr. ROCKWELL. Senator, you know that the administration has ordered a further 10 percent cut of personnel overseas. Senator PELL. Around the world as well. Mr. ROCKWELL. The military would be affected by that. Senator PELL. Right. Would you submit for the record an itemized list of the material already authorized but in suspension to be sent to Greece, and a list of the material which has been shipped since the suspension that was partially lifted last fall. (The material requested is classified and on file with the committee.) EFFECT OF AMENDMENT ON MILITARY ASSISTANCE PROGRAM Senator PELL. Once more, returning to the effect of this amendment so that I can get your objections in my mind, your point is that if the amendment were passed, in order to carry on for the coming year, the cost of operation, the salaries of the men, the living allowances and things of that sort, you would have to reprogram from the hardware standpoint; is this correct? Mr. DUNLAP. That is correct. It is not salaries and living allowances, however. Senator PELL. What is it? Mr. DUNLAP. They are not part of this figure we are talking about. The operating costs, for example, include the cost of moving material in the current fiscal year. This kind of thing is an annual operating cost. Senator PELL. You mean the transportation of goods to Greece? Mr. DUNLAP. Transportation of goods and material items to Greece. Senator PELL. What else would there be? There must be more than that. A $10 million operating cost must include a lot more than just transportation. Mr. DUNLAP. It does. There is also some training that is included in the operating costs, technical services. Senator PELL. What are technical services? Mr. DUNLAP. Where we provide an item of equipment for which they need technical assistance in operating and maintaining it, we provide a technical service to insure its operability. It also includes packing, handling and crating, spare parts including consumable spare parts. Senator PELL. You mean spare parts are included in operating costs, wheels, tires, things of that sort? I thought they were separate. Mr. DUNLAP. No, you have two categories of spare parts. We provide spare parts with end items, normally one year's operating spares with the end items, and that is carried as an investment item when it is provided. The provision of spare parts on a year-to-year basis for those equipments already in the hands of the forces are considered as operating costs and are carried in these figures. Senator PELL. Will you give me once more for the record, and maybe I can get it through my head more clearly, what will be the effect on the Defense Department's program if this amendment is agreed to calling for this one year's suspension? Mr. DUNLAP. The effect would be a disruption and curtailment and reprograming of the Greek program in order to meet the current costs, and would require us to cancel items that are in the 1970 program which we had intended to buy; we would have to cancel those plans. It would mean a year's break, therefore. Senator PELL. Excuse me, are you not exaggerating a little bit when you have [deleted] and some of this for lead items? As you said, the lead time is a year and a half, so if you cancel some of the items not due to be delivered for 2 years or two and a half years in order to handle the operating costs, would that have any effect on the program now? Mr. DUNLAP. It would not feel the effect now, Senator Pell, but certainly you would feel the effect eventually because you would have a year's break in what you are referring to as the pipeline, and there is no way to avoid that because we are buying now to deliver something 2 years from now if there is a 2-year leadtime. If you stop buying now and wait for a year to buy, then you are obviously going to have a year's break, so it would have that disruptive effect. Senator PELL. I see the point you are driving at. CRISIS DUE TO BREAK IN OPERATIONS NOT SEEN I would think, considering the fact that the pipeline, the authorized funds, is longer than the leadtime that is necessary, that it would really not make much difference if we had a break, to resume it in a year, if the need is there. Mr. DUNLAP. Senator, I believe the term "pipeline" is somewhat misleading in this connection because, or at least in the terminology as we know it, pipeline would refer to all the leadtime, both procurement and administrative from the time you start something into the system until it is delivered, and that usually applies to consumables or spare parts, et cetera. But when you are buying a truck, it is hardly adequate to then discuss it in a sense of a pipeline because you make a specific procurement. It might take you 2 years to get delivery, and in 2 years from now you deliver it. In this case against the 1970 programs, we have determined what we need to buy out of 1970 funds in order to deliver based on the leadtime. Senator PELL. No, but when the amount is so large, when you have [deleted] backed up in authorization, and your average leadtime is around, let's say, 18 months, this means that and you are spending at the rate of [deleted] a year, this would mean that-if you canceled out-that you would go for a year and you would still have [deleted] left and which would give you all the leadtime you needed for the next year and a half. Can you explain that? Mr. ROCKWELL. Senator, some of those funds have already been spent. They represent items which are suspended but are in existence so they could not be used for other things. All of tanks are piled up in storage, but they are in being. Senator PELL. Right. Mr. ROCKWELL. So the money represented by those tanks could not be used for something else. Senator PELL. Yes, but surely you can find the amount for operating costs, the $10 million somewhere out of [deleted] authorized funds. Mr. ROCKWELL. Sure, you could find the minimum cost to say that there is a program, but the whole thing insofar as forward momentum is concerned would come to a halt. Senator PELL. Which is perhaps what we want. Mr. ROCKWELL. Well, that is what you have to take in mind, if you want to bring it to a halt, or don't you. Senator PELL. At the present stage, I would like, for psychological reasons, to bring it to a halt. Mr. ROCKWELL. As I understand these things, if you interrupt the flow, it takes a long time to get back to. Now it flows from, the things that flow from the NATO treaty, do we want it or do we not want it in Greece, and it is a big problem. Senator PELL. We appreciate the responsiveness of the witnesses. I am sorry to have gone into such detail, but I do intend to offer this amendment and I think we have no disagreement as to its psychological effect, but we do have a disagreement as to whether there would be an inconvenience in the military program. If you do have a further statement as to how it would inconvenience you, feel free to say so. And thank you for being here. Mr. ROCKWELL. I would like to make a statement, Senator Pell, in wrestling with a difficult strategic and difficult political problem we appreciate the help of the Members of Congress such as yourself betause we like to have some help in sharing these burdens. Senator PELL. Thank you very much. I guess the meeting is adjourned. (Whereupon, at 12:40 p.m., the committee adjourned.) SUMMARY INDEX (List of witnesses appears alphabetically in contents) Page Agreement: Active insurgency: Determining the threat of an.......... Administration: Saught, testimony of.. Agency for International Development (AID): Agency as a banking business... Appropriation for Spanish bases. 117 332 30 20 Approval through the appropriations process. 27 As to commitment involved, Thai Government_ 320 Available for delivery to Greece, amount of.. For India, Pakistan, and Latin America. Questioned: Motivation of an.... To Spain in spite of trade with Cuba__ Trade and education, multilateral strategy of.. Aid policies: Coordination between trade and.. Comprehensive review of Current standing In Indonesia noted, success of.. Through private organizations_ Aid recipients: No new.. Aid requests: Justification for increase in.. Aid suspension: On Greek political regime, effect of. Airbases: Maintenance of __ American Institute for Free Labor Development (AIFLD): 198 325 46 70 291 228 21 172 156 40 51 37 28 161 31 39 24 330 291 Agreements with U.S.S.R. and Red China, prospects of Balance-of-payments: Effect of increased overseas investments.. 167 315 38 193 |