An official in one country, and much of this is a rice area, talked to me about the question. Is it possible, out of your agricultural knowhow, to tell us how to develop a satisfactory kind of rice than can be grown by dry rice farming, instead of by wet rice?

INTEREST IN THE FAR EAST IN THE PROGRAM

The second thing which many of them wanted to know, Is there a possibility of developing a kind of tractor which can be used in the rice paddies? That varied from country to country with the size of the paddy and the amount of water, and so on, but that is a problem where they want our technical experience.

They are very much interested, in many of these countries, in the question of their water supply. Have we got something to suggest in ascertaining the general level of water table which might be available in a particular dry area, and the means of getting it out without too much of an expenditure of fuel or by the use of some method with which we might be familiar?

Similarly in the whole health field. In a great many of these areas one of your greatest problems is the control of malaria. It is a very good example of a situation in which we would cooperate with a United Nations agency, because the World Health Organization has been carrying out an excellent program for malaria control. With that we could fully cooperate.

Now, I would just like to stress one other thing, Mr. Chairman, and that is the point to which you referred, Senator Wiley, that these experts that we send out will very definitely be, as you called them, missionaries expounding the American point of view. The bill also provides, and this is again part of the Smith-Mundt aspect of the affair, for bringing trainees to this country. As they go back they will also be missionaries, having absorbed something of the American way of life and the American attitude and the American way of looking at things.

I would, therefore, just like to reemphasize, Mr. Chairman, that I think in this part of the world there is an understanding of what it is all about, the type of technical assistance program it really is, and there is an enthusiasm for it. As the Secretary pointed out in his statement. I believe that if we cannot move forward with this with reasonable rapidity, there is going to be a sense of terrific letdown and a sense that we are not really interested in making our contribution to the economic development of these countries. Thank you, sir.

UNDERSTANDING OF THE LIMITATIONS OF THE PROGRAM

The CHAIRMAN. Isn't there a danger of a let-down, too, if we do not go over there and spend a lot of money on projects? They will say, "The United States told us all about sending these experts, and they were going to revive and reestablish our economy and all that."

When we do not do that won't they say, "Well now, there you are"? Ambassador JESSUP. I do not think so, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You raised the point that if we do not do it quickly they are going to be disappointed.

Ambassador JESSUP. But the first point I raised, Mr. Chairman, was that there was an understanding that this was not a big hand-out program, but it was a program of technical assistance.

The CHAIRMAN. Understanding with whom?

Ambassador JESSUP. The people in the governments of these countries know what kind of thing this is, and they are not looking for big hand-outs.

The CHAIRMAN. But they may not be in the governments the next time you hear from them. They may be out. I am in sympathy with the program, if we can hold it down to its objectives, but I am not in sympathy with getting your foot in the door and next year coming up here with a great big $100,000,000 project where we can dam up the Euphrates River.

Ambassador JESSUP. That is definitely not part of this program. The CHAIRMAN. I know it is not at the moment.

Ambassador JESSUP. We have this Griffin mission, which is touring the area now, discussing with them what kinds of things can be done under the program and increasing the understanding which I think already existed of just what this is all about, and what it really means in terms of the technical assistance program.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Smith?

Senator SMITH of New Jersey. Just one question, Dr. Jessup. I gathered that your testimony is in support of the over-all principle of the program. You are not discussing the technicalities of the bill? Ambassador JESSUP. No, sir; merely an illustration of its applicability in one area.

EFFECTIVENESS OF SMITH-MUNDT ACT

Senator SMITH of New Jersey. I would like to ask you this further question: Do you find that the Smith-Mundt Act is effectively operating in the countries you were in?

Ambassador JESSUP. It is a very effective program.

Senator SMITH of New Jersey. I had felt that if we passed this legislation it would be sort of an expansion of the idea that was originated in that approach to the international problem.

Ambassador JESSUP. I quite agree with you.

Senator FULBRIGHT. Dr. Jessup, coming back to this question of administration, we have, in the course of the last 2 years set up in 17 foreign countries boards composed of one-half their local people, and they are reasonably good people, and our own people, to administer this exchange of students program. That does not have any authorization for dollar funds, and it does not cost hardly anything out of our Treasury. You are familiar with it.

NEED FOR THIS ADDITIONAL PROGRAM

Now, the Smith-Mundt bill authorizes money. When you say it is effective, I don't know how it can be, under this program, because they haven't had enough money. They have had practically none. I do not understand why, since that machinery is set up and you have a division of the Department of State, you need something else. It is an efficient organization with very few people. The Board of Foreign Scholarships is composed of 10 outstanding people and they serve as

a public service, and I do not think you can get better people under some new program, and I am sure you would not under a United Nations committee. I do not understand why that cannot be enlarged. Last year, up until October, there were 1,800 people in exchange. Most of them are students, graduate students, research students, professors, and teachers. Some of them are county agents. I don't understand why that isn't already on the way with an organization and should not be enlarged. Would it not achieve to a great extent the very purpose you have here?

It seems to me we just keep getting a multiplicity of agencies, whereas we have the framework now in being and all we need is to put a little money into it, and I do not think it would take too much money to supplement the funds. They have available over 20 years $140,000,000 equivalent in foreign currencies already; that is, it is contemplated to be available, and with a few dollars to supplement that I think it could be made very effective, and quickly.

Why does that not appeal to the Department of State?

Ambassador JESSUP. I would like to leave the main answer to Dr. Thorp. As I understand it, that machinery that you are talking about on the side of the program that is involved in the Fulbright Act and the Smith-Mundt Act is to be utilized. Perhaps one of the reasons why the general charge of this point 4 program is to be put in the Department of State is that we have already got the machinery and have had the experience of administering those two programs. But, as Mr. Thorp just pointed out, there are other aspects of this in terms of cooperation with the United Nations and in terms of economic development which are a little beyond the scope of existing activities. I do not want to get into the details, because Mr. Thorp is the authority on this and I would rather let him answer it.

EFFICIENCY OF FULBRIGHT PROGRAM

Senator FULBRIGHT. If it is technical assistance, I can see that it is. Now, if you have in mind specific projects, it is beyond the scope of that legislation. But if it is to be technical assistance, exchange of persons who do not have to be students, who are experts in any field, as I would understand it, you have all the authority and the machinery and you need only a little additional money, and that is what makes some people a little suspicious that maybe you do contemplate going into the field the Senator from Texas is talking about. Otherwise you do not need any new legislation. All you need is the money, and you can get it, I think, if you ask for it.

Ambassador JESSUP. May I refer that to Mr. Thorp?

Senator FULBRIGHT. Before you do, do you see anything wrong with that approach? You have seen, in some of these countries, the organization that is beginning. I believe you will confirm that it took a long time to execute these executive agreements and get the countries to agree to them. Some of them were suspicious of our intentions. Now that has been straightened out. Seventeen have already signed and there are 17 more who are in the process of negotiation today. India is one that has just recently signed and ratified; Turkey ratified as of last week. They are coming in now, from those areas where there were some suspicions about our motives.

It seems to me an ideal organization to use, and it would materially decrease the possible cost. Everybody understands that program, that it is not intended to build dams and roads and factories and so on. There is no question about that, either on our part or on the foreigners' part, because they went over it with a fine-tooth comb as to what its purposes were.

Don't you have any feeling about that?

Ambassador JESSUP. I think certainly that that experience and that machinery ought to be utilized. My understanding is that there is every intention to do so.

Senator FULBRIGHT. Then why can't we say so in the legislation? That would suit me fine.

Mr. THORP. I think the legislation, Mr. Senator, virtually does do and say so. It was intended to indicate that all the programs of the Government which fell in this field of technical cooperation were to be coordinated, and every expectation has been made in the Department to use the part of the Smith-Mundt machinery that is applicable to economic development and coordinate it along with the other elements that are in the bill. There is the great problem of pulling all these various things together, and that is one of the bits of machinery authorized in the bill. But there are a number of other things in it, such as the setting up of joint commissions in other countries, for example.

Senator FULBRIGHT. They are already set up under the 485 law of 1946.

Mr. THORP. I was talking about a different kind of joint commission that is set up.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me interrupt you just a moment.

Dr. Jessup, have you finished?

Ambassador JESSUP. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions of the doctor? Thank you, Dr. Jessup. That is not an invitation to leave, but I wanted to get on to this next witness if you are through.

Now we have Assistant Secretary of State Thorp, who is in charge of this matter and wants to go into it. I will say for the benefit of the committee that there is an hour and a half's time allotted over in the Senate to Senator Neely to speak on displaced persons, so those who are indifferent to hearing that speech might remain here for a while, at least, and hear Mr. Thorp.

STATEMENT OF HON. WILLARD L. THORP, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE

Mr. THORP. Mr. Chairman, I thought the most useful thing that I could do to help the committee was to go through the bill and point out what was contemplated with respect to it in terms of the type of administration, the authority that was established, and so forth, and I think there are several points that have been raised which I will be glad to develop, and I will proceed in whichever way you gentlemen would prefer.

ADMINISTRATION OF THE PROGRAM

Senator SMITH of New Jersey. I am not clear at all in my mind why we should be setting up another Administrator here with a new office,

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and so forth, when we have machinery, it seems to me, in Secretary Barrett's office to do the whole thing suggested here except possibly your business program. He is in charge of the Smith-Mundt operation and the Fulbright exchange of scholars and technical advisers. We have been doing this now in an expert American way for 2 years. My only difficulty has been that we never get money enough because we do not get enough steam behind it from the State Department to support it. It seems to me everything you are asking for here could be consolidated with that program and be much more effective in that way.

Am I wrong in that?

Mr. THORP. What we have felt was necessary was an agency which would focus on the problem of economic development as such, that would work with other countries in terms of the kinds of skills that they specifically needed and the types of projects on which work should be done, so that there would develop then with other countries projects in the health field, in the education field, in the agriculture field, in the Government administration field, for which experts would be provided for the other countries.

The previous administrations have worked more in terms of individuals and less in terms of having specific programs developed, and the purpose here of a new administration was a coordinating administration which would be reviewing all our relationships, all the needs of these particular countries, so that the projects which were developed were projects that related to a balanced situation in the country.

The kind of difficulty that you can get into now is that you can have a health project in a country, which is very desirable in itself, but at the same time there might not be an agricultural project which is necessary if more people are to be kept alive by more people being fed, and a balanced program is the thing that is necessary.

COORDINATION OF EXISTING PROGRAMS

This is not to displace other programs. This is essentially to coordinate other programs. We have now, for example, and have been coordinating in the Department fairly well, the so-called Fulbright program and the Smith-Mundt program. But our problem has been essentially that we have had more foreign currency that we have had local currency and we focussed much more on the individuals that were concerned-a historian who wanted to come to this country to study for a year, for instance. It was more, you might say, in the general cultural field.

Senator FULBRIGHT. They particularly like to send engineers, too. Technical people want to come, but we have no funds to supplement the foreign currency, and I think we have no trouble of getting them here if you can make available some dollars to supplement these other funds.

NEED FOR THIS LEGISLATION

Mr. THORP. I would agree at once, we could take that legislation and by a series of substantial amendments provide the additional phases that are in this legislation. It happens that this legislation is the result of suggestions that have been made by the business community and by a number of the private organizations, and it is intended to