TO ACT ON THE NOMINATION OF FRANK C. CARLUCCI TO BE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 1987 U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES, The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:21 p.m., in room SR-222, Russell Senate Office Building, Senator Sam Nunn (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Nunn, Stennis, Exon, Levin, Kennedy, Bingaman, Dixon, Glenn, Wirth, Shelby, Warner, Thurmond, Gramm and Symms. Chairman NUNN. The committee will come to order. We are now in open session. The question is whether we would recommend the Senate of the United States approve the nomination of the President of the United States of Frank Carlucci to be Secretary of Defense. Senator WARNER. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee approve the nomination now pending before this committee. Chairman NUNN. Is there a second? Senator EXON. I second. Chairman NUNN. I will ask the clerk to call the roll. The CLERK. Mr. Stennis. Senator STENNIS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Exon. The CLERK. Mr. Wirth. Senator WARNER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thurmond. Chairman NUNN. Mr. Cohen. The CLERK. Mr. Quayle. Senator QUAYLE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Wilson. Senator WARNER. Aye by proxy. The CLERK. Mr. Gramm. [No response.] The CLERK. Mr. Chairman. Chairman NUNN. Aye. The CLERK. There are 18 ayes and no nays. The nomination is agreed to. Chairman NUNN. I would ask unanimous consent that the record be left open for those who have not yet voted to be able to cast their vote no later than 6 o'clock this afternoon. Is there objection? [No response.] Without objection, we will report this to the Senate, and it would be my hope that we would be able to complete this in the Senate next week, but that will be up to Senator Byrd and the minority leader to schedule it. I am told that we need to report this sometime today, and that we would have all votes in by 4 o'clock-2 o'clock. We will have the votes in by 2 o'clock. Any other business? If not, have a good weekend. [Whereupon, at 12:22 p.m., the committee recessed subject to the call of the Chair.] [The nomination of Frank C. Carlucci III was reported to the Senate by Senator Sam Nunn on November 13, 1987, with the recommendation that the nomination be confirmed. The nomination was confirmed by the Senate on November 20, 1987.] NOMINATION OF ROBERT B. COSTELLO TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR ACQUISITION THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1987 COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES, U.S. SENATE, Washington, DC. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:40 a.m., in room SR222, Russell Senate Office Building, Senator Sam Nunn (chairman) presiding. Present: Senators Nunn, Stennis, Exon, Levin, Kennedy, Bingaman, Dixon, Wirth, Shelby, Warner, Quayle, and McCain. Staff present: Arnold L. Punaro, staff director; Romie L. Brownlee, deputy staff director for the minority; Jeffrey H. Smith, general counsel; Patrick A. Tucker, minority counsel; Andrew S. Effron, counsel; Christine C. Dauth, chief clerk; Gerald K. Bankus, Robert E. Bayer, Jonathan L. Etherton, Sherri Wasserman Goodman, John J. Hamre, George K. Johnson, Jr., Ronald P. Kelly, James R. Locher III, David S. Lyles, Norman G. Mosher, Frederick F.Y. Pang, professional staff members; Pamela G. Powell, staff assistant. Also present: Jeffrey B. Subko, assistant to Senator Exon; William J. Lynn, assistant to Senator Kennedy, Edward M. McGaffigan, Jr., assistant to Senator Bingaman; Charles C. Smith, assistant to Senator Dixon; Donald A. Mitchell, assistant to Senator Glenn; Kevin T. Knobloch, assistant to Senator Wirth; Terrence Lynch, assistant to Senator Shelby; William J. Wight, assistant to Senator Warner; James M. Bodner, assistant to Senator Cohen; Mark J. Albrecht, assistant to Senator Gramm; Samuel J. Routson, assistant to Senator Symms; and Patrick A. Putignano, assistant to Senator McCain. OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SAM NUNN, CHAIRMAN Chairman NUNN. The committee will come to order. The committee meets today to consider the nomination of Robert B. Costello to serve as Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition. Dr. Costello brings to this position a distinguished record of accomplishment in industry as well as a year's experience as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Production and Logistics. As his predecessor learned, however, past accomplishments are no guarantee of total success in this very challenging assignment. Establishment of the Under Secretary's position was one of the key recommendations of President Reagan's Blue Ribbon Commis sion on Defense Management. Last year the Congress adopted this recommendation and established the Under Secretary's position in law. Less than a year later, the first Under Secretary for Acquisition, Richard Godwin, resigned. Although much was made in the media of personal differences among senior DOD officials, it became clear at an extensive hearing before our committee in September that Secretary Godwin's resignation was primarily related to substance. The relationships among the Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Secretary and the Under Secretary for Acquisition naturally will vary based upon the particular individuals who may occupy those positions at any one time. What cannot vary, if this overall concept is going to work, is the basic authority of the Under Secretary to manage all aspects of the acquisition process, subject only to the control of the Secretary of Defense or the Deputy when acting for the Secretary. In our report on the legislation establishing the Under Secretary's position, we emphasized that the Under Secretary not only establishes general policy, but also has the authority to enforce policy decisions in specific matters and is expected to play a significant role in major programmatic decisions. The Secretary of Defense has complete authority to establish, by directive, such authority for the Under Secretary as he deems necessary. While we fully expect the Under Secretary to consult with the service Secretaries on acquisition matters, we also expect him to render authoritative decisions without their acquiescence when it is necessary to do so. We do not expect all the details to be handled at this level, and we want the services to have a lot of flexibility in handling the details. But the authority to address and to resolve any conflicts relating to policy is vested in the Under Secretary for Acquisition. The hearing with Secretary Godwin also demonstrated another serious problem faced by the Under Secretary. While the Secretary of Defense has given the Under Secretary authority over procurement matters as head of the Defense Acquisition Board, the Under Secretary has no authority over the resource allocation decisions made in the Defense Resources Board. Yet, it is the Defense Resources Board that determines whether funds will be budgeted for new starts, milestones, and baselining actions. So, we see this as a real problem. In view of the budget constraints ahead, the Under Secretary has to be more than the person who makes policy on how to buy weapon systems. We did not create this position simply to give more visibility to acquisition regulations. We established the position of the Under Secretary to ensure that the Department's resource allocation decisions are based upon a thorough and searching analysis of the budgetary implications of competing acquisition strategies. That requires the Under Secretary to play a major role in matters that involve approval of new starts, milestone decisions, modification of existing systems, and establishing and altering rates of production. As you know, Dr. Costello, there are many who doubt that the cultural changes envisioned by the Packard Commission can be ac complished, particularly in the remaining months of this administration. There is a lot of skepticism about that. There will be times in the next year when the competing pressures and demands on you will create a great temptation for you to simply serve as a caretaker-put a few band-aids on and get by. I sincerely hope you resist these temptations. You can do a great service if you exercise the leadership needed to bring the Packard Commission recommendations into reality. I think also we should keep in mind that this is not a conflict between the Congress and the President of the United States or even the executive branch. The President has endorsed the Packard Commission recommendations. Those recommendations were the basis of our actions. In terms of policy, I think the Congress and the President have seen eye to eye here. And it's a matter of trying to make the President's policy and the congressional policy work. Dr. Costello, you have appeared before our committee a number of times. And I am sure that our members are looking forward this morning to discussing this position and your view of this position with you. We are pleased that your wife Marcia could be with you this morning. We are pleased that you could come today and we could get this hearing going. I know it has been a long time since we have tried to schedule this hearing. We have had a lot of other things on our mind. But that does not in any way diminish the importance of this position because we think it is one of the most important positions in the Department of Defense. So, we thank you for being here this morning. Senator Warner. Senator WARNER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I associate myself with your concluding remarks and tender apology to this distinguished individual for the absence of my colleagues. We have been summoned to a caucus with respect to the budget compromise, and you can recognize the priority of that commitment. And therefore, Mr. Chairman, I shall have to absent myself. The chairman has, as he invariably does, stated very succinctly the concerns here in the Congress, primarily on the Senate side, with respect to your position. I would like to pay a word of respect to Dick Godwin and the job that he did. He worked with you; you worked with him. Given the unusual circumstances of his departure, I think that Secretary Godwin and Secretary of Defense Weinberger handled that as well as they possibly could. I look upon that departure as a constructive and positive development in the turbulent cycle of growth in the area of responsibility in your particular position. I am sure that there are still some uncertain areas that you will have to chart, particularly regarding your relationship with the service Secretaries in the military departments. I do hope that you can carry out your job with respect to the military departments and other offices in a manner that gives you the appropriate authority to bring about the changes that are necessary. You are going to go to work with a new Secretary of Defense. Mr. Chairman, I suppose that approval is imminent. Chairman NUNN. In the next day or two. |