The CHAIRMAN. The first item is No. 260, date July 17, amount $100, cash. That was money you drew against what a deposit? Mr. PERRIN. That was my own money that I expended before I received any check from Mr. Edmonds, if I remember correctly. The CHAIRMAN You received the first check July 30? Mr. PERRIN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. In the case of check No. 265, on July 25-that is five days before you received the first $1,000-we find the amount is $25, payable to W. W. Savage, and indorsed by him. For what was that paid? Mr. PERRIN. That was probably money that we had used before I got any money from Senator Stephenson. The CHAIRMAN. I will make this suggestion for the examination: Instead of saying that it was "probably" money paid for a certain purpose, if you have a recollection, give it; if you have none, state that fact, Mr. PERRIN. I am obliged to you, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. I will ask the question again: For what was the $25 paid W. W. Savage? Mr. PERRIN. I have not any recollection, definitely. The CHAIRMAN. Who was W. W. Savage? Mr. PERRIN. My clerk. The CHAIRMAN. Your clerk? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. In your law office? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Again, on July 30, the day upon which you received the $1,000 from Mr. Edmonds, there is an item of $25 cash. For what was that money paid? Mr. PERRIN. I can not recollect. The CHAIRMAN. Check 276, on August 1: At that time you had received only $1,000. There is an item of $300 to C. R. Fridley, indorsed by him? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. For what was that money paid? Mr. PERRIN. That was paid to Mr. Fridley to aid in electioneering in Superior and in Douglas County. The CHAIRMAN. You say "to aid." What was he to do? Mr. PERRIN. He was to put out information, and arrange to hire workers, and in every way to further the interests of Senator Stephenson in that campaign. The CHAIRMAN. "In every way" is a pretty general term. It might include legal and illegal ways. Being a lawyer, you can readily sift that out. Mr. PERRIN. Every legal way. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; but what were those ways? Mr. PERRIN. In order to make an effective campaign in Superior and in Douglas County, it was necessary to have a good many workers. He had been in politics for a good many years. He knew a great many men. He knew to whom to go to get the necessary assistance to work up the sentiment necessary to get out the vote for the Senator. The CHAIRMAN. How did he work up that sentiment? The CHAIRMAN. That is an answer, if you do not know. It is important, however, to inquire as to the acts that constituted "working up a sentiment," because it might be done in a legal or in an illegal way. Do you know how he expended the money? Did he render a statement to you? Mr. PERRIN. No; he did not. The CHAIRMAN. Then do you know how he expended this money, all or part of it, in specific terms? Mr. PERRIN. Not in specific terms. The CHAIRMAN. Who is C. R. Fridley? Mr. PERRIN. He is an attorney at Superior. The CHAIRMAN. Is he an old resident? Mr. PERRIN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Is he an old man or a young man? Mr. PERRIN. He is a man of 42 or 43 years of age. The CHAIRMAN. Did he support Senator Stephenson for nomination at the primaries and before the primaries? Mr. PERRIN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Was he in public life in any capacity? Mr. PERRIN. No. The CHAIRMAN. He was what you call a political worker, was he? Mr. PERRIN. No. He was a practicing lawyer. The CHAIRMAN. He was actively engaged in the practice of law? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You never asked him for any accounting as to the expense he had incurred? Mr. PERRIN. I did not. The CHAIRMAN. Pass that item, for the present, and take another one, on the same day, of $125 cash. For what was that cash expended by you? Mr. PERRIN. I have no recollection. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any recollection as to where it was expended? Mr. PERRIN. No, sir. I can not tell whether that was expended in Douglas County or one of the other counties. The CHAIRMAN. Does that represent money paid out by you? The CHAIRMAN. No part of it was compensation to you? Mr. PERRIN. No. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any recollection of the persons to whom you paid it? Mr. PERRIN. No. The CHAIRMAN. Can you name any one person to whom you paid it? Mr. PERRIN. No. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. One moment, if the chairman pleases: I simply wish to ask the chairman about this, because I do not think it has appeared in the examination. I will see what the fact is. Do I understand that this column headed "number" indicates the numbers of Mr. Perrin's own checks? The CHAIRMAN. I had rather assumed that it does, inasmuch as the word "endorsed" appears, in some instances. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. What is the fact about that, Mr. Perrin? Senator POMERENE. You say that is your understanding. Do you not know? Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I thought we might just as well have that explained. Senator РомERENE. Yes. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I did not know what it meant. (Exhibiting paper to the witness.) You are looking at Exhibit 157, and the question is, Mr. Perrin, whether this column headed "number" indicates the number of your own individual checks. The CHAIRMAN. He says so on the preceding page, 1922. He says "I have those checks now." Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; but that did not appear in the examination here, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. No. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. And I thought we had better have it appear in the record here. The CHAIRMAN. Certainly. There is no objection to its appearing. I used the term "check number" in the first instance. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I noticed that you did. Mr. PERRIN. I understood it. prece The CHAIRMAN. And I did it because of the statement on the ding page, that he had his checks there, and was enumerating these items from the checks. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes, sir. Senator SUTHERLAND. This account, as I understand, is simply a list of the checks. It is not an account that you kept of your expenditures, as you went along? Mr. PERRIN. No. I made this statement up after I had been subpoenaed to appear before the Joint Investigating Committee at Madison. Senator SUTHERLAND. And your checks are, really, the best evidence; and this is a transcript of the checks? Mr. PERRIN. This Exhibit 107 was made up from the checks. Senator SUTHERLAND. Yes; not an account which you kept at the time of making the disbursements? Mr. PERRIN. No, sir. Senator SUTHERLAND. That is what I understood. The CHAIRMAN. It is my intention, without breaking in on him any more than is necessary, to then call attention to the testimony wherein he says that he has these checks, which reads as follows: Q. Have you those checks now?-A. Yes; I have them with me. Q. Would you just give those checks, and the amounts?-A. I have a statement here, typewritten statement, made from the checks which is complete except as to one item, $250, which doesn't show on that. I have drawn off here all of this testimony, with the references to it, for the purpose of making this examination. I did not want to break in upon this categorical table more than was necessary. Senator SUTHERLAND. I beg the chairman's pardon. The CHAIRMAN. It is all right. There is no harm done. Now, Mr. Perrin, we come to the item: No. 278, August 1, $25 cash; Columbia Clothing Co.-"Clo." I suppose, means clothing? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What was that item for? Mr. PERRIN. I have no recollection, Senator, as to what that was for. It did not go to the Columbia Clothing Co. The CHAIRMAN. It did not? Mr. PERRIN. No. It was cashed in their store. The CHAIRMAN. It was a check given out of hours, and cashed in their store? Mr. PERRIN. It was presumably given out of hours. I can not remember definitely about that, of course. The CHAIRMAN. The next item is check No. 281, August 4, $15 cash, H. R. Grochau, agent. For what was that? Mr. PERRIN. I do not remember. He did not get the money. That was cashed in his office. The CHAIRMAN. He was what kind of an agent? Mr. PERRIN. He was the agent of the Omaha Railroad, and got the check cashed at his office. The CHAIRMAN. On August 5, $200 cash. For what was that cash expended, and by whom? Mr. PERRIN. I have no recollection. The CHAIRMAN. August 6, $25 cash. What do you say as to that? Mr. PERRIN. I have no recollection. The CHAIRMAN. August 6, $200. What have you to say as to that item? Mr. PERRIN. I do not remember it. The CHAIRMAN. When you say you do not remember, you mean- The CHAIRMAN. That you have no information to give in regard to it, based upon your recollection? Mr. PERRIN. None whatever. The CHAIRMAN. On August 7, $100 cash. Have you any recollection as to the purpose for which that was expended? Mr. PERRIN. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And on August 7, again, $75; and on August 7, again, $50; that is $225 on August 7. to what that was used for? Have you any knowledge as Mr. PERRIN. Those items are all "cash"? The CHAIRMAN. On the 8th we have cash items of $50, $50, $50, $50, and $50-$250; do you know the purpose for which that money or any part of it was expended? Mr. PERRIN. Those are cash? The CHAIRMAN. Yes; cash items. Mr. PERRIN. No; I have no recollection. The CHAIRMAN. One of those is indorsed by W. W. Savage. Mr. PERRIN. That is the same W. W. Savage who was referred to a few moments ago. The CHAIRMAN. And the other by James Glynn. Mr. PERRIN. He did not get the money on that. That was cashed in his place of business. The CHAIRMAN. What does he do? Mr. PERRIN. He is a saloon keeper. The CHAIRMAN. What does Savage do? Mr. PERRIN. He is my clerk. He is a clerk in my office. The CHAIRMAN. And James Glynn is a saloon keeper? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Was that money expended in the saloon? The CHAIRMAN. The check was cashed there? Mr. PERRIN. Yes. We get checks cashed after hours wherever we can get the money. The CHAIRMAN. On August 14, $250 cash. Who got that money? Mr. PERRIN. I have no recollection, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any recollection of the purpose for which it was paid out? Mr. PERRIN. No. The CHAIRMAN. This is all drawn against the $5,000-the thousand dollars and the other items that were paid you by Mr. Edmonds? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. We have now passed August 4, on which you received the second thousand dollars? Mr. PERRIN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have no recollection, you say, as to the $250 item on August 14? Mr. PERRIN. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. On that day you paid out six items of expenditure, being $250, $25, $5, $50, $50, and $50. Those items are all cash except one of $5 to R. J. Shields. Who is R. J. Shields? Mr. PERRIN. He is an insurance agent at Superior. The CHAIRMAN. How long has he resided there? Mr. PERRIN. More than 20 years. The CHAIRMAN. What did you pay him the money for? |