Senator POMERENE. You felt that the expenditure of this money did have some influence when it came to the matter of the primaries, did it not? Senator STEPHENSON. Inasmuch as I carried the primary by some 10.000, that showed that I was nominated and that I was the legal candidate under the primary, and that might have had some influence afterwards, probably. Senator POMERENE. When you were expending this money you did it for the purpose of aiding you in securing the nomination did you not? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. And you felt that it would influence the result, did you not? Senator STEPHENSON. Oh, I do not know. I would say now, perhaps, that it would have some influence, of course, because a majority of our people enacted the primary law; and I suppose I had more to do with it, as I furnished most of the money to get that law. Senator POMERENE. If you expected the expenditure of this money to have some influence in securing the indorsement at the primary, did it not occur to you that the knowledge that you had expended that amount might have had some weight with the legislators, in making public opinion, as to whether or not they should vote for you? Senator STEPHENSON. Of course, the fact that under the primary election law I had won out by some 10,000 or more plurality would have some influence, if they believed in the primary law, and of course they would stand by my nomination. It would be natural for me to think that. Senator POMERENE. Senator, you have said here, in answer to some questions which were put to you, that as these demands were being made on you from time to time it occurred to you that it was requiring a good deal of money? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. Did you say anything to Mr. Edmonds on that subject? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes; I cautioned him to get along as cheap as he could. I did not want to throw my money away any more than was necessary. Senator POMERENE. Did you ask him what he was expending this money for? Senator STEPHENSON. Oh, well, he told me in a general way in some cases. Senator POMERENE. No; but did you first ask him? Senator STEPHENSON. I can not say that I did, in particular. Senator. POMERENE. Do you mean to say that any information he gave you on that subject was given voluntarily and without being elicited by a question from you? Senator STEPHENSON. Oh, I asked him why he was spending so much money? Senator POMERENE. What did he say? Senator STEPHENSON. He told me he had to do it to get the vote out, and so forth, and to get the literature before them; and they had to get the names, and it cost a good deal to get the names, and the postage, which the $11,000 paid for postage shows. Senator POMERENE. In answer, I think, to the chairman of this committee, you said you had confidence in them-meaning Mr. Edmonds and Mr. Puelicher and others? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. And then you added, "I could not ask them what for," referring to the expenditures of the money. Senator STEPHENSON. Not all the details, no; but in a general way I would say to them, "Well, you are spending a good deal of money, and I would get along with less," or some remark of that kind. Senator POMERENE. Then you never asked them for the details, or any of them? Senator STEPHENSON. I did, for this account. Senator POMERENE. For the account? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. But before the filing of that account? Senator POMERENE. In order that you might be the better advised as to how the campaign was being conducted? Senator STEPHENSON. It took them some time to get it up, afterwards. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. The question of the Senator is whether you asked him for details pending the expenditure of the money. Senator POMERENE. Yes, and prior to the time of filing the account. Senator STEPHENSON. No, I do not do business in that way. I am doing too much business. If I asked my men who work for me, and all my foremen and these other men, what they are doing, I would not sleep any at night, because they would not have time to answer me. Senator POMERENE. Did it not occur to you that this was a little bit different from your ordinary business transactions-that this was a matter in which the public was interested? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes, it was politics, and my other business was not politics, as far as that is concerned. Senator POMERENE. Did it not occur to you that the State was interested in knowing whether or not there had been any expenditures, and if so in what amounts, and the purposes for which the expenditures were made? Senator STEPHENSON. I covered that in this way, that I told them to keep within the law, and to spend as little as they could. I made that remark several times. That was about as far as I could go. I could not question them on details, because I did not know them. I told them to keep within the law. Senator POMERENE. You at no time asked them to keep a book account showing in detail what they expended? Senator STEPHENSON. No. Senator POMERENE. Or to whom it was given? Senator STEPHENSON. No. Senator POMERENE. Or the purpose for which it was given? Senator STEPHENSON. No. Senator POMERENE. You said you gave Mr. Edmonds a check for $5,000. Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. And you also stated that he paid back a part of it? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. What amount did he pay back? Senator STEPHENSON. I can not tell you that now. I can not give that because I do not know. Senator POMERENE. He had received large amounts of money, as I understand from Mr. Puelicher? Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Senator POMERENE. When he paid you back a given sum, whatever it was, are you able to say now that it was a part of that $5,000, or that it was the balance after his expenditures? Senator STEPHENSON. I think maybe both. The reason that Mr. Edmonds wanted the $5,000 to put into the National Exchange Bank was that if he wanted some money that he could call his own, if you please, for different small amounts, he could draw against it; so that he could draw his own check on the bank. Senator POMERENE. You have stated that you paid money in considerable sums to Mr. Edmonds and to Mr. Puelicher, and perhaps to Mr. Van Cleve. Did you pay any substantial amounts to any other persons? Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir. Senator POMERENE. Did anybody else expend any money for you to your knowledge? Šenator STEPHENSON. No, only around home; a small amount. Senator STEPHENSON. No; not any. The CHAIRMAN. Senator, on your examination before the legislative committee you were asked whether or not you kept letterpress copies, and you said at that time that you had not examined your files to see whether or not you had written any political letters during the campaign, or letters relating to the campaign. Have you since made an examination of your letter books and files? Senator STEPHENSON. No; but I would say that I have not written any political campaign letters. I might write to a friend somewhere asking him to do what he could for me, but not in relation to any expenditure. The CHAIRMAN. You say you wrote nothing in regard to any expenditure? Senator STEPHENSON. No; not any, as far as I can recollect or know; not any. The CHAIRMAN. That is all. Senator POMERENE. Just another question or two, please, Senator Stephenson. You say that Mr. Edmonds furnished you the information from which you filed your account. Senator STEPHENSON. Yes, sir. He made up the account and gave me this list [indicating]. Senator POMERENE. In what form did he give that to you? Senator STEPHENSON. In about the same form as it is here; the same as I filed it. Senator POMERENE. That is, it was a typewritten copy, was it? Senator POMERENE. Very well, I will get at what I want in another way. Did he bring you any book showing this account? Senator STEPHENSON. No. Senator POMERENE. Or any cards or slips of paper or memoranda showing it? Senator STEPHENSON. No. Senator POMERENE. You do not know then, do you, whether the account that he furnished you was the original account that he had kept? Senator STEPHENSON. No. Senator POMERENE. Or whether it was simply a copy- Senator POMERENE. Of something that he may have kept? Senator STEPHENSON. I will say to you, Senator, that in my business I have what I think are good men, and I have confidence in them. I do not examine them. There is so much that I could not do it if I wanted to, and I have never had anybody rob me yet, only I might say politically. Senator POMERENE. I think that is all I desire to ask. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Of course, if we have occasion, we will examine Senator Stephenson later in the course of the proceeding. Senator POMERENE. We may want to ask him some questions. The CHAIRMAN. Do you desire to interrogate Senator Stephenson, Mr. Littlefield? Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Not at the present time. If we have occasion later, we will ask permission of the committee. That is all, Mr. Stephenson, now. The CHAIRMAN. Call Mr. E. A. Edmonds. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. The original letter from the attorney general, I think, is at Mr. Stephenson's home at Marinette. We have a copy. Of course, if the subcommitte would like to see the original, I will have it brought here. Otherwise I will simply put the copy in and use it as the original, but I wish to consult your preference, and I will have it inserted in the record at that place. Senator POMERENE. If we should decide we want to see the original letter, you may put it in. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Very well. I will put the copy in the record at that place, and if you want the original letter I will see that it is produced. The CHAIRMAN. The copy is offered now? Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. So it will be in direct connection with Senator Stephenson's examination? Mr. LITTLEFIELD. It is at Mr. Black's office. We will hand it to the reporter. We will have it so that it will be a part of the record. Just mark it "Exhibit 2." Senator POMERENE. I would ask whether you could send for it now? Mr. BLACK. I do not know whether there is anyone there now who would know where to find it. Senator POMERENE. Very well. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. We will see that it is furnished to the reporter so he can have it transcribed, and we will have it in the minutes in the morning. We will call it Exhibit 2. TESTIMONY OF E. A. EDMONDS. E. A. EDMONDS, having been previously sworn, was examined and testified as follows: The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Edmonds, where is your place of residence? Mr. EDMONDS. Appleton, Wis. The CHAIRMAN. How long have you resided there? Mr. EDMONDS. Four years. The CHAIRMAN. What is your business or occupation? Mr. EDMONDS. Paper manufacturer. The CHAIRMAN. What kind of paper manufacturer? Mr. EDMONDS. Print and wrapping. The CHAIRMAN. Are you chairman of the Republican State central committee? Mr. EDMONDS. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Were you? Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. When? Mr. EDMONDS. From 1908 to 1910. The CHAIRMAN. What time in 1908? Mr. EDMONDS. I think the 22d of September, if I remember correctly. The CHAIRMAN. How were you selected? Mr. EDMONDS. According to the law of the State, which provides that the nominees of the Republican Party for members of the assembly and senate shall meet in Madison and select a chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Had you held an office prior to that time under the State? Mr. EDMONDS. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What office? Mr. EDMONDS. Elective office? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. EDMONDS. I was a member of the assembly at one time. The CHAIRMAN. At what time? Mr. EDMONDS. In 1892 I was elected to serve two years. The CHAIRMAN. In 1892? Mr. EDMONDS. Yes; to serve two years--one term. The CHAIRMAN. Had you held an appointive office? Mr. EDMONDS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. What office? Mr. EDMONDS. Member of the board of regents of the university. The CHAIRMAN. At what time? Mr. EDMONDS. In 1900; for three years. The CHAIRMAN. Were you associated in business or in any way with Senator Stephenson prior to your undertaking the management of his campaign in 1908? Mr. EDMONDS. I do not think so. The CHAIRMAN. Had you had business relations with him or with the institutions with which he is connected? Mr. EDMONDS. Possibly. The CHAIRMAN. You mean by that not directly? Mr. EDMONDS. It is possible that the paper company of which I was manager might have bought wood from some concern in which he was interested. |