Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of any such conversation. Mr. SACKET. A man whose home was in Waushara County, my home, a man I had known The CHAIRMAN. What was his business? Mr. SACKET. I think at that time he was not in any business. Mr. SACKET. If I remember it correctly, his regular line of business was that of a traveling salesman. The CHAIRMAN. Now, there is W. J. Fossbinder, $61. Have you knowledge as to what that money was paid for? Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Did the chairman omit J. Humphrey, $60.15? The CHAIRMAN. That is in the combined item he has just testified about. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Excuse me for the suggestion, but he has not testified about the item of $60.15. The CHAIRMAN. Did I understand you to say that you only know as to the Hayes item? Mr. SACKET. I said I did not know as to the Hayes item. The CHAIRMAN. But that you did as to the Sexton item? The CHAIRMAN. How about the Humphrey item? Mr. SACKET. I do not remember about the Humphrey item. The CHAIRMAN. The next is the Keyes item. We have been through the account of Mr. Keyes. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; he testified about Keyes. The CHAIRMAN. Now we will pass down to Mr. Fossbinder; $61. Mr. SACKET. My recollection of that item is that Mr. Fossbinder did some work in the nature of hanging posters and other campaign work during the campaign for Mr. Stephenson, and sent in his bill at the close of the campaign, which amounted to $61, and I paid it. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know what he expended the money for, do you? Mr. ŠACKET. I think he rendered a bill at that time. I do not recollect at this time exactly what it was for. The CHAIRMAN. But he was employed and paid the money for going out among the electors and canvassing for Senator Stephenson; is that right? Mr. SACKET. I did not employ Mr. Fossbinder. I think I remember paying him, on his statement of what he had done. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Which is just as you have described? Mr. SACKET. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Now the item of $30 for W. B. Jones. What was that money paid for? Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of that item. Senator POMERENE. Is there a Picket County? Mr. SACKET. I know of a little station by the name of Picket, on the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul Road, between Ripon and Oshkosh. The CHAIRMAN. On September 15 you paid O. T. Johnson $57.76. What was that for? Mr. SACKET. I have no recollection of that item. The CHAIRMAN. Now, that completes the examination in regard to each item down to the expenses in Milwaukee County on page 596, and the hour of adjournment having arrived, the committee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock to-morow morning. At 4 o'clock 30 minutes p. m. the subcommittee adjourned until to-morrow, Saturday, October 7, 1911, at 10 o'clock a. m. SATURDAY, OCTOBER 7, 1911. FEDERAL BUILDING, Milwaukee, Wis. The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock a. m. Present: Senators Heyburn (chairman), Sutherland, and Pomerene. Present, also: Mr. C. E. Littlefield, Mr. W. E. Black, and Mr. H. H. J. Upham, counsel for Senator Isaac Stephenson. The names of George W. Dart, R. L. Morse, L. W. Thayer, Arthur Wilcox, A. I. Hulbert, and Le Roy E. McGill were called. Mr. Morse, Mr. Wilcox, and Mr. Hulbert responded to their names, and the oath was administered to them by the chairman. TESTIMONY OF RODNEY SACKET-Resumed. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Sacket, on yesterday we had finished examining you upon the items in the account down to the item of "A. M. Jones, $150," on September 15, which is on page 596 of Exhibit 49. The next heading is, "Expenses in Milwaukee County as reported by W. R. Knell. Bills paid by check." Have you that statement before you? Mr. SACKET. I have; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Have you personal knowledge of the payment of each and all of the items contained in that statement, aggregating $2,864.05? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Have you personal knowledge as to the payment of any items in that statement? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know to whom they were paid, or for what purpose? Mr. SACKET. Not of my own knowledge; no, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Who has knowledge of those payments, and the purpose for which the money was expended? Mr. SACKET. W. R. Knell, who made the report. The CHAIRMAN. Where does he reside? Mr. SACKET. Milwaukee was the place of his residence the last time I knew. The CHAIRMAN. What was his business? Mr. SACKET. He was sheriff of Milwaukee County at that time. The CHAIRMAN. I will ask the secretary to see if we have Mr. Knell's name down for subpœna. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. He is on your list for next week. You have him down here for Tuesday. The CHAIRMAN. The secretary reports to me that we have. On page 597 of Exhibit 49, which you say Mr. Knell can account for, we have items commencing July 1, under the head of "Cash disbursements," and going down to the summing up of that class of items on page 599. Have you personal knowledge of the expenditure of those sums of money, or any of them? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Who has? Mr. SACKET. Mr. Knell. The CHAIRMAN. Are those part of the Milwaukee expenses-that is, the expenses of the Milwaukee County organization? Mr. SACKET. They were so reported by Mr. Knell. The CHAIRMAN. Commencing under the date of August 1, page 599, with the item of $1,385, and going down to the end of that statement on page 601, have you any knowledge of those disbursements? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Who has? Mr. SACKET. Mr. Knell. The CHAIRMAN. Are they a part of the expenses of the organization in Milwaukee County? Mr. SACKET. They were so reported by him. The CHAIRMAN. To you? Mr. SACKET. To me; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Commencing with the item of August 26, on page 601, and going down to the words "Disbursements in excess of receipts," on page 602, have you any knowledge of those items? Mr. SACKET. None at all. The CHAIRMAN. Or statements? Mr. SACKET. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Who has? Mr. SACKET. Mr. Knell. The CHAIRMAN. Were those on account of the Milwaukee County organization? Mr. SACKET. They were so reported by him. The CHAIRMAN. Page 602: Commencing with August 5, and including down to the item of August 26, "cash," on page 604, state whether you have any personal knowledge of those expenditures, or any of them? Mr. SACKET. I have. The CHAIRMAN. Have you any knowledge of the items on page 602, including August 5, and going to the bottom of the page? Mr. SACKET. I have; yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. We will take up the item on August 5, "Pay of help and office expense from July 1, $1,101.91." Have you that pay roll? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a pay roll from which that item is taken ? Mr. SACKET. I made up a pay roll from time to time as these items were paid, but I did not keep those pay rolls. The CHAIRMAN. When you put this item in the account, where did you get the figures from? Mr. SACKET. From a note on my card index. The CHAIRMAN. That card index you say you destroyed? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And it was there and no where else? Mr. SACKET. No where else, to my knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. Have you sufficient knowledge to enable you to give the items that make up that aggregate sum of $1,101.91? Mr. SACKET. In a general way only. The CHAIRMAN. Suppose you give us as much information as you can on that subject. Mr. SACKET. That was the total amount of expenses for conducting the office in the Wells Building, the Stephenson headquarters office, from the time it was opened, about the 1st of July to August 5, including pay of all of our office help. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Of how many did the office help consist? Mr. SACKET. I do not remember how many we had at that time; but we have had as high as 42 girls addressing envelopes and doing clerical work. The CHAIRMAN. That was up until after the filing of the petitions? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. From that time on you seem to have made frequent entries. For instance, the next item is "Office, $65.50." What was the nature of that expense? Mr. SACKET. From the note here I simply know it was expenditure for conducting the office-regular office expenses of some kind. The CHAIRMAN. No money was paid out except for services in the office? Mr. SACKET. For services in the office and for care of the office. The CHAIRMAN. And for supplies? Mr. SACKET. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. I notice on August 15, "Pay roll. $362.50." Then on August 22 the amount of $387.80 is entered for pay roll, and on August 28, for pay roll, $365.85. That was for actual salaries and compensation paid to people in the office? Mr. SACKET. And expenses directly chargeable to the management of the office. The CHAIRMAN. I notice you have made an additional charge on the 18th of "Office, $146.25," and again on the 25th of $159.95 for "Office." What were those items for? Were they for the office expenses outside of salary? Mr. SACKET Yes; they were for office expenses, possibly including some salaries. The CHAIRMAN. The salaries did not all come due on the same day? Is that it? Mr. SACKET. I paid the salaries when it was convenient or when the people wanted their money. I had no regular day. The CHAIRMAN. That class of items aggregates $4,074.38. It is all within the class that you have described, is it? Mr. SACKET. It is; yes. sir. The CHAIRMAN. We will take the telephone bill on page 603 of your account. I find that from July 1 to September 5 your telephone bill was $256. What was the nature of the services for which you used the telephone? Was that all at the office? Mr. SACKET. It was all charged to the office-long-distance phones and the regular rental of local phones. The CHAIRMAN. Does that include the use of the phone by people who were traveling over the State in the interest of Senator Stephen son? Mr. SACKET. No, sir; it does not. The CHAIRMAN. The next item, telegraph expenses, aggregates $37. State whether or not that was for telegrams sent out from or received at the city office here in Milwaukee. Mr. SACKET. To the best of my recollection it was. The CHAIRMAN. We have next the postage-stamp item, commencing July 1 and going to August 4: "Cash, $1,914." Who paid out that money? Mr. SACKET. I did. The CHAIRMAN. Where did you purchase these stamps! Mr. SACKET. In the Milwaukee office. The CHAIRMAN. For what purpose did you purchase those stamps! Mr. SACKET. For paying postage on the letters and other matter used in relation to the Stephenson campaign. The CHAIRMAN. How used? Mr. SACKET. Sent through the mails. The CHAIRMAN. To whom? Mr. SACKET. To the people of the State of Wisconsin. The CHAIRMAN. What class of material was that? Mr. SACKET. There were letters-personal letters, multigraph letters, imitation typewritten letters done on a printing press, circulars of different kinds; and the postage was paid on the lithographs that were sent out. The CHAIRMAN. Can you furnish the committee with one of each of the several kinds of literature included within the scope of that bill of expense? Mr. SACKET. I can not. The CHAIRMAN. Who can ? Mr. SACKET. I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Where did you have this printing done? Mr. SACKET. To the best of my recollection, most of it was done in Milwaukee. The CHAIRMAN. At what office in Milwaukee? Mr. SACKET. I do not remember the name of the office. The Evening Wisconsin did some of it, I remember, and the other names appear later in the statements here, but I can not remember them now. The CHAIRMAN. You can not furnish the committee, then, with a copy of any literature that was sent out under this charge of postage? Mr. SACKET. I have no copy at this time. The CHAIRMAN. Were the letters copied in a letterpress book, or were carbon copies made of them? Mr. SACKET. As I remember, carbon copies were kept of personal letters. The CHAIRMAN. Have you those copies? Mr. SACKET. I have not. The CHAIRMAN. Has anyone those copies, within your knowledge? Mr. SACKET. Not to my knowledge. The CHAIRMAN. What was done with them? Mr. SACKET. They were probably put with the waste paper when we cleaned up the office. 15235°-VOL 1-11-29 |