Mr. LITTLEFIELD. No; I have the joint committee.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. The committee's copies are bound in a different form. Do you find it?

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; that is the testimony of Mr. Bancroft. The CHAIRMAN. The testimony of Mr. Bancroft, who was the speaker of the house and a member, of course, of the legislature. Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Yes; certainly.

The CHAIRMAN. I am asking the witness for what he paid Mr. Bancroft $250.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I beg the chairman's pardon, but I think the chairman is perhaps laboring under a little misapprehension. The question rather assumes it was paid to Mr. Bancroft by Mr. Stephenson. That was not the fact.

The CHAIRMAN. I was not assuming anything. I was asking as to the fact, for what this money was paid.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I think inadvertently that was contained in your question.

Senator STEPHENSON. No; I did not myself pay Bancroft anything, and I do not know anything about that.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of him being paid $250?

Senator STEPHENSON. Only as Mr. Edmonds reported did I understand it. I do not know whether he he does not report it [referring to paper]. Is Bancroft's name contained in your copy of it, Mr. Littlefield?

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. No; it does not appear in the list.

Senator STEPHENSON. That is a matter as to which Mr. Edmonds must answer. I know nothing about it.

The CHAIRMAN. When did you first know that Mr. Reynolds was a candidate for election or nomination, as the

Senator STEPHENSON. Some time during the primary; I do not know when. I was away on my fishing trip 10 days during the first part of August, and I did not have much to do with the election at all. I took very little part in it, only to furnish the money. They called on that pretty strong.

The CHAIRMAN. On page 21 of the testimony before the joint committee you testified that you "understood that Reynolds would be a candidate for the legislature" when you gave him the $80; is that correct?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, I might; I am not sure on that. I met him over at Fish Creek, and I gave him in currency out of my pocket $80, and requested him to get some names and to employ others, and he objected to taking the money first; but he is a poor man, and I gave it to him. I afterwards-we sent him a hundred dollars afterwards.

The CHAIRMAN. In August?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes; a hundred dollars afterwards. Reynolds would not charge me a cent for anything, now nor then. The CHAIRMAN. Now the case of C. C. Wollensgard?

Senator STEPHENSON. I know nothing about him at all; that is, about any money question.

The CHAIRMAN. He testifies, on page 2093, before the joint committee that he received in connection with the Stephenson campaign $250 in the latter part of the primary campaign. Do you know anything about that?

Senator STEPHENSON. Nothing about it, nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. He testifies, on page 2116, that he was to go to work and organize the county and get nomination papers circulated and get men out to the polls to work; do you know anything about that?

Senator STEPHENSON. Nothing, nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. You have no personal knowledge of any of the other items then than those that have already been brought to your attention?

Senator STEPHENSON. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Items that were paid on your account?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir. No; not as far as I can think now. The CHAIRMAN. I would like to inquire a little more particularly as to your understanding of the duties to be performed by your assistant, Mr. Edmonds. What did you expect him to do when you gave him these sums of money?

Senator STEPHENSON. To make the canvass; that was all.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you understand by the expression "making the canvass "?

Senator STEPHENSON. To make the canvass within the law.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean? What do you understand by "making a canvass within the law"?

That

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, not to furnish any money to anyone that was running for the legislature that might vote for me. was one thing.

The CHAIRMAN. What was he to spend the money for?

Senator STEPHENSON. To get the vote out, and circulate petitions and newspapers and get names. We had no names. It cost a great deal of money to get names, where we could send letters, send out

The CHAIRMAN. I have understood you to say that you already had more names than you needed?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. Now I am speaking about the canvass, after the names.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator STEPHENSON. We had to circulate letters and posters and everything and find out who to send them to by mail. You see they spent about $11,000 for mail, and that was to write letters and things to the people in the different parts of the State; that is where the postage came in; about $11,000 of postage business.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a talk with Edmonds as to what he was to spend this money for?

Senator STEPHENSON. Which?

The CHAIRMAN. The money that you gave him?

Senator STEPHENSON. To make a canvass and keep within the law. The CHAIRMAN. That is very general, Senator?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, that is as far as I went; to keep within the law; and I charged them several times to keep within the law. The CHAIRMAN. But you left it to their own judgment as to what would constitute a compliance with the law?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes. That I had to do, because I had no-I was not personally in the canvass. I did not do any-practically no work.

The CHAIRMAN. When you gave the $30,000 on August 7, which was less than a month before the election, by a check to J. H. Pue

licher, did he tell you that he needed that money for the expenses of your campaign?

Senator STEPHENSON. Who?

The CHAIRMAN. Puelicher. You gave a check to him.

Senator STEPHENSON. I presume he did.

The CHAIRMAN. Check No. 6.

Senator STEPHENSON. I presume he did. Mr. Edmonds was calling on him. Mr. Puelicher and Mr. Van Cleve were my bankers, if you please, or treasurers.

The CHAIRMAN. Did it not occur to you that a call for $30,000 at that time was rather an unusual demand in election expenses?

Senator STEPHENSON. He probably did not pay it all to Mr. Edmonds at one time. Mr. Edmonds called at different times for it, I presume.

The CHAIRMAN. Eight days before he had received $10,000 and a few days afterwards he received $15,000 more. Were you not put upon inquiry as to the character of the expenditure that was being made in your behalf by the call for such large sums of money?

Senator STEPHENSON. I thought it was spending a good deal of money. They thought I had it, and they wanted it, I guess; some of it.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. I do not hear what you say, Senator. A little louder.

Senator STEPHENSON. I thought it was calling for a good deal of money, but, of course, I did not know what he wanted it for, and I had confidence in him and in my treasurers, two treasurers; I had absolute confidence then and now, and I did not know anything about the detail or how they were using it, and did not know any of the time until they made their report.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever ask them how they were using these sums of money?

Senator STEPHENSON. My cashier talked with them how much it was costing, but not to any particular item.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember the date of the primary election?

Senator STEPHENSON. The first Tuesday in September.

The CHAIRMAN. What day of the month was that?

Senator STEPHENSON. I am sorry I can not answer you, because I pride myself on day and date, time and place.

Senator POMERENE. Does counsel know the date?

Mr. BLACK. The 1st of September, I think.

Senator STEPHENSON. The 1st of September, was it not, this year? Mr. BLACK. The 2d day of September.

Senator STEPHENSON. It was the first Tuesday in September.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you not put upon inquiry upon September 3, the day after the primaries, when you were called upon for a check for $13,500?

Senator STEPHENSON. No.

The CHAIRMAN. That did not seem out of the ordinary to you? Senator STEPHENSON. They called for it, and I gave it to them. I had confidence in them; I could not ask them what it was for. It is for Mr. Edmonds to show, perhaps, what he did with it now.

The CHAIRMAN. On October 10, more than a month after the primaries, and after you had been nominated by a plurality vote, you gave Puelicher $3,700 after the legislative ticket had been nominated; what did you give him that sum for?

Senator STEPHENSON. I can not tell you that now.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you not inquire what he wanted such a sum for?

Senator STEPHENSON. He may have said what he wanted it for, but I do not know. He did not put it in writing to me. I had absolute confidence in him, as I say, now and then. He wanted it for something I do not now know what; I could not say.

The CHAIRMAN. On November 7 you gave a check to J. Earl Morgan for $2,550?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What was that for?

Senator STEPHENSON. Well, in the campaign he-Winnebago County, and I think maybe did some work in Waupaca County. The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by "work "*?

Senator STEPHENSON. To get out the voters and circulate documents.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, at the general election?

Senator STEPHENSON. Yes; that is, the general election, and the primaries, too, I guess; both included; both included, the primary and the I mean the primary election; yes.

The CHAIRMAN. This is two months after the primary.

Senator STEPHENSON. He did not make his bill. He got his money. He is my son-in-law, and he has got money enough of his own, and I suppose he did not send his bill to me until he got ready.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. What were they? Was that relating to the primary election?

Senator STEPHENSON. I think he did some work during the primary and during the general election. That is, that would be my impression now. In other words, I do not know much about the general election or the general primary; I left it to others.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you at the State capitol during the legislative session at the time of your election?

Senator STEPHENSON. At the capitol?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator STEPHENSON. I was only in Madison on the 16th of February and gave my evidence there in the forenoon and afternoon; the 16th day of February, 1909; that is all.

The CHAIRMAN. You were not there again during the session?
Senator STEPHENSON. No; at no time.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay any person any money in connection with your campaign between the 2d day of September and the day of the general election for the purpose of influencing or working for you with the members of the legislature?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir; not to my knowledge; not a cent. The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay or authorize to be paid any money to any member of the legislature for voting for you for United States Senator?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir; I never did that.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you pay or authorize the payment of any money to any member of the legislature for absenting himself or refraining from participating in the ballot?

Senator STEPHENSON. No, sir; I did not.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know of three members having absented themselves three members who, had they been present, would have voted against you; do you know of that fact?

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. One moment, may it please the subcommittee. I wish to interpose a formal objection here.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think any objection will lie to a question by any member of the committee.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. It is not formal. It is simply so that the record may show that our attitude is consistent. Of course, the chairman will bear with me, I trust, a moment

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. It is to show that our record is consistent with reference to the legal situation. I would like to have the record show that we object to the introduction of any testimony in relation to the election of a United States Senator subsequent to the 26th of January, 1909, when we contend the Senator was elected. And in connection with that, perhaps, I ought to say that the journal of the house shows, and we will introduce that before we get through, that on the 27th, when they first met in joint convention, a specific protest was made by a senator against any further proceedings, upon the ground that an election had already taken place; and on every day thereafter when the joint convention occurred, for the purpose of the election of a United States Senator, the same protest was made. Now, of course, the subcommittee understands that I am not insisting on circumscribing the scope of the inquiry, but I would like to have the record show that we interposed the objections at the proper time, for the purpose of maintaining our consistency upon the legal propositions.

The CHAIRMAN. The legal proposition will not be affected by the question, having been already passed upon and its status established. I think there will be no difference of opinion in regard to my statement that an objection does not lie to a question asked by a member of the committee.

Mr. LITTLEFIELD. Oh, I do not intimate that it does, but I desired to have the record show that when this part of the examination was reached we simply asserted our legal position and would not be understood in any way as waiving it.

Senator STEPHENSON. I will answer that question, Mr. Chairman, if you will

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I desire the question to be answered. Read the question.

(The reporter read as follows:)

Do you know of three members having absented themselves, three members who, had they been present, would have voted against you; do you know of that fact?

Senator STEPHENSON. Only through the newspapers.

The CHAIRMAN. You were not there at the time?

Senator STEPHENSON. The men I never saw, had nothing to do with

in any shape, name, or nature at all.

Senator SUTHERLAND. Senator Stephenson, I want to ask you one or two questions. How long have you known Mr. Edmonds!