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Senator HATHAWAY. Will there be a sum set aside for the Federal buildings project?

Mr. CRAVEN. We have not actually dealt with that aspect as yet. We think, certainly, with respect to Government procurement practices, regulations should be devised which take into account the activity of small businesses in that area, and supply protection for very active involvement.

Senator HATHAWAY. Now, to what extent are you coordinating your activities with ERDA, HUD, SBA, or any other agencies that are involved with solar energy development?

Mr. CRAVEN. Well, we have worked very closely with each of these agencies with respect to their programs, with respect to the impact of their programs, on the national energy picture. We have had various discussions at staff level on our Government buildings program. It has been discussed at staff levels with GSA, with the Department of Defense, and a number of others, so we are working very, very closely with the various other Government agencies involved.

Again, we tend to focus more on the one side of the spectrum, the commercialization, and how we can accelerate commercialization of that technology which is proved, and get it into the market now and make the consumer aware of it, and supply the pull, I guess, from the demand side, while ERDA tends to focus on the other end of the spectrum, the research, development, and demonstration side. And then, right there in the middle is a very close connection and cooperation of the technology which ERDA is involved with, and develops, and we would want to pull that into the market as well.

Senator HATHAWAY. Now, are you responsible to see that there is no duplication of effort between these agencies?

Mr. CRAVEN. Yes, sir.

Senator HATHAWAY. Sore of the witnesses we had here yesterday indicated that they had some unhappiness with the Federal activity. I hope that Mr. Piper is here; I do not know whether the others are here. But I would ask them to ask you whatever questions they might have to let you know what their feelings are about FEA.

Mr. Piper?

Mr. PIPER. I do not specifically have any gripes about FEA. I think they have been one of the most cooperative agencies in answering questions that I have-but I do have a question about the Federal building program, and apparently it now is in the situation something like HUD is. That is to say, there are people in the Federal Government that would like to use the solar system, or an energy-conserving system, and they have not the authorization to do so.

Is there something in the wind right now, or can something be done to clear away the barrier?

Mr. CRAVEN. Well, we are working very actively now to do that. I mean, one of our major concerns has been to accelerate commercialization, and to eliminate constraints that now exist. And, as I say, this program, I think, is fairly well defined and devised at this point, but it is still at the staff level. And we will be making policy recommendations to the Administrator within a matter of a few weeks.

Senator HATHAWAY. Is there anyone else in the room who has any complaints that they would like to air at this time?

Senator HATHAWAY. How soon will the solar commercialization program plan mentioned be available?

Mr. CRAVEN. I think toward the end of June, or early July.

Senator HATHAWAY. Mr. Craven, thank you very much for your testimony. There will undoubtedly be some questions in writing submitted to you, and we would appreciate your answering them before the 1st of June. I guess the record will stay open until the 1st of June; if there is anyone who wants to put in additional material, we would be glad to receive it.

Thank you very much.

Mr. CRAVEN. Thank you very much, sir.

Senator HATHAWAY. If there are any other comments by previous witnesses-and I guess, Mr. Piper, you are the only one left if you would like to make any other comment before I close the oral hearing, we would be glad to hear them.

Mr. PIPER. I have really only one comment. And that is that I think that technology and the hardware system exists for solar space heating and water heating right now. And I personally would like to see a much quicker movement by Government to clear away the barriers that exist. And if they are going to stimulate that portion of the market to actually begin to have installations in a short time period, and if they are going to be involved in the research and development, there are some solar areas that I believe still need research and development.

Those are solar cooling and some of the more advanced technologies. I would like to see those, instead of just being lumped together-and considering a technology like photovoltaic technology being considered in exactly the same manner as space heating and water heating. I would like to see them separated so that we can get on with the installation of the things that exist right now.

Senator HATHAWAY. Are you saying that the ERDA timetable and the HUD timetable are too slow?

Mr. PIPER. Yes, sir.

Senator HATHAWAY. Well, Mr. Craven, you said you thought they were realistic.

Mr. CRAVEN. I think the timetable with respect to the demonstration programs are realistic timetables under that program. At the same time, our program is designed so that technology which is proved, and there are a number of areas in which this is true, gets into the market now.

We do not think we need to wait until the results of the demonstration program are complete-within the 5-year time period which is indicated under that program-before moving into a strong solar market. And so, our program is concerned with the commercialization of the technology which is proved at this point, and that is what we are working toward.

Senator HATHAWAY. Are you in a position to prod HUD and ERDA to accelerate their programs if and when you get information such as that given by Mr. Piper?

Mr. CRAVEN. We are willing to prod anyone at this point, sir.
Senator HATHAWAY. Could you be effective?

Mr. KUHN. Mr. Chairman, in Mr. Craven's testimony, he highlighted the importance we ascribe to the development of the ade

important with regard to the hot water heaters. That market is just about to develop out there, and we badly need to get those performance criteria developed now, and not 3 years or 5 years down the line.

We are actively working with the National Bureau of Standards and with HUD to move them to get those criteria developed in the very near term, and we believe very firmly that that can be done within a period of a year or less. And I think that is directly responsive to what this gentleman has indicated here.

Senator HATHAWAY. Good. Thank you very much.

Mr. PIPER. I have a comment on that, too.

I think ASHRAE has already, within its body, a lot of the information that we are now going to need to do exactly that. If you turned to ASHRAE and said, will you provide for us the information that you have, you would get a flood of it.

Mr. KUHN. Mr. Chairman, we met with John Landis just the week before last. He is president of the American National Standards Institute which is an umbrella organization, as you know. It deals with all of the other technical organizations like ASHRAE, and so on, and we have asked them to work with the National Bureau of Standards, HUD, and with us to help develop performance criteria, and to move them along, and to work with industry. And he indicated a very cooperative attitude, and indicated it was feasible, and he is going to be meeting with NBS in the very near future to do just that.

So I concur in what you have said, and this will not be done unilaterally by the Federal Government, by the executive branch, let me assure you of that. It is going to be done using the full resources in the existing organizations in the field in the industry.

Senator HATHAWAY. Fine.

Mr. FIELDS. I am Ray Fields from ERDA; the Acting Assistant Division Director for Direct Solar Conversion.

I just wanted to comment that responses that we have gotten to the interim plan balance out fairly well between people who say, we know how to do it, let's go do it, and others who say, let's not run so fast as to have systems out there that are unproven and discourage the public with their performance.

I was personally responsible for those first four school experiments, and I would say three out of the four collectors, while we knew how to design them and they performed like they were supposed to, we would redesign them if we were going to build any more. We did learn, while the technology is understood, how to collect the sun's energy, how to convert it to heat, you have a lot of environmental problems that must be accounted for. And it takes a little time to run tests and make sure you have a sound design-one that would not have to be overhauled or pulled off somebody's house in a matter of a year or so.

Senator HATHAWAY. What are some of the environmental problems? Mr. FIELDS. Well, collectors; if, for instance, the water is not coming through it, and the sun is shining on it, it is designed to collect heat. They can go to temperatures as high as 450° F., and on the cool of a winter night, be 0 or 10 below. That is quite an environmental temperature change. A lot of the collectors that are out now, and it is a worry, use aluminum roll bond, and they are somewhat sensitive to the elements in the water. So we are concerned about making sure, at reasonable costs, that we have absorbers that will stand up.

So far, all of the aluminum we have is holding up, but we have run these big systems for just a little over a year now. So we are not going slow just because we are trying to make a career out of it, is really the point I am making.

Senator HATHAWAY. Thank you.

Any more comments?

[No response.]

Senator HATHAWAY. The hearings will be closed, but the record will stay open until June 1. Thank you.

[Whereupon, at 2:25 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.]

[The exhibits supplied for the record by Mr. Craven follow:]

48. SENATOR MCINTYRE'S QUESTIONS TO DONALD B. CRAVEN, WITH MR. CRAVEN'S ANSWERS INTERSPERSED

Question 1. Enclosed is a copy of the original typescript of a table Senator Nelson inserted in the Congressional Record of May 8, 1975, at pp. S 7733-4. Senator Nelson invited the public at large to offer additions and corrections to this table. We should especially like to have, for the hearing record, FEA's careful review of the entire table, its corrections of any entries that appear to be in error, and any other estimates that could be incorporated into the table as additional line items. Answer. FEA is now beginning a significant review of the Project Independence Report and the associated Task Force Reports. This review, commonly referred to as "Blueprint II," will, in effect, provide the most up-to-date energy projections. Concerning those parts of the table (that Senator Nelson inserted in the Congressional Record of May 8, 1975) referring to Solar Energy-two important FEA activities may impact on those projections:

Blueprint II, Solar Energy Projections; and

National Plan for the Accelerated Commercialization of Solar Energy.

As these studies progress, we will keep your Committee abreast of the results of any changes in FEA energy projections.

Question 2. Please refer to the FEA press release numbered E-75-100, dated March 29, 1975. (We should appreciate your sending us, for reproduction in the record, two copies of that release and two copies of each report 2 to which reference is made in the release. We have seen a four-page report headed "Solar Collector Manufacturing Activity, Calendar Year 1974," with appended list headed "Manufacturers of Solar Energy Collectors During Calendar Year 1974-I. Rigid Frame, Medium Temperature Collector Manufacturers." That list, of 5 pages, includes 39 company names and addresses. We should like to have, in addition to copies of that report and list, the further lists naming the other companies in your survey that were found to be manufacturers of any other kinds of collector. We have not seen yet-but hope to receive-the "comprehensive report on Federal activities in the solar energy area from July 1973 through January 1975" referred to in the lead paragraph of the release.)

(a) Could you please amplify-to the utmost extent possible in layman's language-the explanation of the calculation that the 136,540 square feet of hightemperature solar collector the FEA's telephone survey found to have been manufactured in the U.S. in 1974 would produce energy of only a "maximum oil equivalent of . . . 56 bbls/day!!"? (Double exclamation points in original.) (b) The final paragraph of FEA's four-page report on 1974 "Solar Collector Manufacturing Activity" gives the following reason for not calculating the oilequivalent energy production capability of the 1,137,196 square feet of lowtemperature collector the survey found to have been manufactured that year: "The available information on low temperature plastic collectors indicates that their principal application is restricted to heating swimming pools. Therefore equivalent barrels of oil calculations have not been made for this class of collectors."

Are not low-temperature collectors also used to provide domestic hot water? If not, what class or classes of collectors are used for that purpose?

1 See Appendix II-C.

2 See Exhibits 39 and 41.

(c) And why is solar energy that is used to heat swimming pools-energy which would otherwise come from oil, natural gas or electrical resistance heating systems-not worth calculating?

(d) Could you now calculate and report to us, for this record, the oil-equivalent energy production capability of the low-temperature collectors your survey concluded had been produced in the U.S. in 1974?

(e) Could you please provide technical and layman's-language definitions of the terms "high-temperature collector," "medium-temperature collector," and "low-temperature collector," as used in FEA's report and press release? Please describe all known applications of each type.

(f) The first paragraph of FEA's report on 1974 "Solar Collector Manufacturing Activity" indicates that a similar survey will be made semi-annually. Could you explain in any more detail the plans for the survey? Has the second survey been started? What changes will be made in the survey method or the method of reporting results?

Answer. First let us stress that the 136,560 sq. ft. of solar collectors we identified as having been manufactured and sold in calendar year 1974 were not all installed in operating space or water heating systems. Much of it was used for research, marketing and display purposes.

We merely calculated how many barrels of oil would be saved hypothetically, if all the collectors manufactured and sold were installed in operating systems. Our calculations follow:

(1) There is no national average insolation. The Weather Bureau collects insolation data on about 2 score locations. The average of these sites would not be a national average. To select a representative national figure for this computation we viewed monthly insolation maps for the country and selected 400 Langley (1476 Btu's) per day as a representative estimate for this time period.

(2) We then multiplied 1476 Btu's (average daily solar insolation) by 130,000 (the number of sq. ft. of collector identified in our survey rounded off) with the result of 192,000,000 Btu's per day falling on the collectors in our survey.

(3) We then assumed that the collectors in our survey were 40% efficient. This means that they captured 40% of the solar energy that fell on them.

192,000,000 multiplied by .4 equals 77,000,000 Btu's per day

(4) There are 5,800,000 Btu's of energy in a barrel of oil. Consequently, the 77,000,000 Btu's identified as the energy falling daily on the collectors in our survey are equivalent to 13.3 bbls of oil per day.

77,000,000.0 divided by 5,800,000 equals 13.3

(5) The above calculations are based on the assumption that the collectors were all in a horizontal position. By elevating collectors to more optimal angles (latitude plus 10 to 15°), the useful radiation can be increased by about 40%. We then multiply 13.3 by 1.4 thereby getting 18.6 bbls/day.

(6) We then assumed that all of the collectors were being used to replace electric heating. The process of generating electricity in central power stations is 33% efficient, meaning that it takes 3 barrels of oil or other fuel to deliver the equivalent energy of one barrel of oil to the house. We then multiplied 18.6 by 3 and reached the resulting 56 barrels of oil per day estimate.

Low temperature collectors are primarily used for heating swimming pools. They do not heat water to temperatures high enough for domestic hot water purposes. Their main capability is allowing large amounts of water to pass through them at a rapid rate while raising the temperature of the water a few degrees. Some of the manufacturers claim that they can be used for domestic hot water purposes. We are rather skeptical that they are efficient devices for this purpose. It is worth calculating. We did not calculate it because it is an exercise fraught with debatable assumptions; for example:

(1) How many months per year are swimming pool heaters actually needed? Frequently, they are only needed for a few weeks or months before and after the main summer season and possibly on an intermittent basis during the season. Moreover, the length of summer season varies tremendously from one geographic region to the next. We would have to guess how the heaters were distributed throughout the country.

(2) What are the efficiencies of these collectors? These collectors were not evaluated by NASA Lewis or any other independent source to our knowledge.

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