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University of Illinois. We erected research homes and tested every aspect

of air movement, system operation, thermal gain and loss, stratification

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every factor affecting comfort imaginable. The result of that re

search was an exhaustive educational program aimed at contractors which produced a total change in our way of life in America.

Out of this research came the manuals which taught contractors the science

of heating and cooling and the practical procedures necessary to guarantee

comfort in the home.

These manuals have been recognized by FHA, HUD, VA and other federal agencies which specify them in their residential design standards. The American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Airconditioning Engineers, the highest professional society in our industry, adopted these manuals as an integral part of their design publications. The Senators may be interested in Attachment A, a reprint from the ASHRAE Handbook, which specifically cites the manuals developed by our organization.

Spurred by this education, contractors in the field applied their own basic Know-How and good old American ingenuity to produce the breakthroughs in technology and public acceptance which made year-round comfort conditioning a reality. Manufacturers could not have accomplished this reality without NESCA contractors. ERDA will not make solar heating and cooling a practical reality without the same kind of cooperative effort.

Incidentally, I personally intend to actively seek this demonstration project work for my own company. I think it will give us tremendous experience in

this field.

We intend to encourage all of our contractor members to seek the demonstration work. We intend to gather as much field data as possible for exchange among NESCA contractors. We believe the excitement we generate among our members will result in the kind of field experimentation which will produce the breakthroughs we need in solar heating and cooling.

But there is a better way to accomplish this goal. Involve us in this effort from the beginning. We need the data gathered by ERDA. You need us to get this data in simple form into the hands of the contractors who actually do the design and installation and service of climate conditioning systems.

We stand ready to participate in any such cooperative effort. We can reach the small business owner who will make this program a reality. We will reach him through our manuals and publications, we will reach him through our educational programs at Michigan State, Auburn, University of Connecticut, Oklahoma State, Texas A & M, University of Florida, New Mexico

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State, and the ommunity college in your home town.

We will get this data down to the grass roots where it will do all of us the

most good.

In addition, we will be involved in writing the local codes for these systems. In every municipality in which NESCA has Chapters, local contractor members are active in code development as it pertains to this industry. We're going to have to find some means of providing competent, qualified information to these code authorities or face a dismal situation in the future.

Give us the help we need

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get us involved in this effort and we guarantee

you a friendly maet for solar heating and cooling systems in the very near future

Senator MCINTYRE. All right. Well, thank you. I want to ask you if you are unique as an association because of this word in here. You have here the National Contractors Association, and it seems to me there is a contractors association or builders association that is down here having a luncheon every once in a while.

Mr. MENDITCH. You mean the Homebuilders, sir?

Senator MCINTYRE. Yes. I don't know who they are. I can't remember all of these initials here, but a good many people, and they are building and they are contractors, but are you unique?

Mr. MENDITCH. As an industry, well, we think we are, basically because we started a good many years ago with the idea that if we knew our competitor and were friends with him, we would not be enemies, and we had mutual things that we could share. And I guess that is basically true with all associations.

However, we are unique as a group of small businessmen in the fact that we did get research programs going, we use these research programs to be turned into manuals, and we have built what we consider to be an industry that produces a good product at a very low price. And if the small businessman-contractor is a NESCA member, he is informed.

Now, the National Homebuilders naturally is an association of homebuilders, and they are our customers basically.

Senator HATHAWAY. Is it true that you did not know about the ERDA program until a couple of weeks ago?

Mr. MENDITCH. To tell you the truth, sir, I knew very little about ERDA a couple of weeks ago. I read about it, and I consider myself an informed contractor, and I am sorry to admit that I did not know about it.

Senator HATHAWAY. Which indicates a shortcoming on the part of the administration in not getting this information out.

Mr. MENDITCH. It has not gotten down to the grassroots.

Senator HATHAWAY. And you represent how many contractors? Mr. MENDITCH. I myself, as a heating contractor.

Senator HATHAWAY. I mean the organization.

Mr. NORRIS. About 2,000.

Senator HATHAWAY. They are all heating and air-conditioning contractors?

Mr. NORRIS. And refrigeration, right.

Senator HATHAWAY. How many of those do you think would be willing and able to accept contracts from ERDA for demonstration projects?

Mr. MENDITCH. I would say that at least 50 to 60 percent of them would be interested and would have an ability to do it.

Senator HATHAWAY. What would the dollar amount have to be for your company, for example, to make it worthwhile?

Mr. MENDITCH. You would never make any money on this. I think the basic reward on this project is the experience that would be gained, because you are not going to do that many systems immediately. I do not think the dollar amount is important. I think the only important thing is that the small business be reimbursed for what they spend in doing this.

Senator HATHAWAY. You would not make any money right away,

Mr. MENDITCH. We hope that in the future solar energy will come forth.

Senator MCINTYRE. Do you think that if you had the information furnished to you as you requested we could get a manual on solar energy within a year or so for the contractors like your manual here that you have on load calculations?

Mr. MENDITCH. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, we could, and I think it is important that we do.

Senator MCINTYRE. The point I was driving at about being unique, if we consider your association and its importance to the education of the contractor at the practical level, is this: Do you have other associations that should be included in this process?

Mr. NORRIS. Senator, there are four associations which represent contractors in heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration work.

Senator MCINTYRE. Would you furnish their addresses and names? Mr. NORRIS. I would like to clarify our position to theirs.

Senator MCINTYRE. Yes, but would you furnish for the record their names and addresses so that we can get in touch with them, because I think you make a very strong point.

Mr. NORRIS. Absolutely.

[Mr. Menditch subsequently submitted the following information:] 20. LIST OF ASSOCIATIONS SIMILAR TO NESCA

Mechanical Contractors Association of America

5530 Wisconsin Avenue NW., Suite 750

Washington, D.C. 20015

National Plumbing, Heating, Cooling Contractors Association 1016 20th Street NW.

Washington, D.C. 20036

Sheet Metal and Air Conditioning National Contractors Association 1611 North Kent Street

Arlington, Va. 22209

Mr. NORRIS. The uniqueness of our association is that it represents this industry across the board. The other associations specialize in plumbing, sheet metal, or mechanical work, and our association goes across the board, including all of these.

Furthermore, our association, as Mr. Menditch testified, has a long history as a major educational force in the industry, one that remains unchallenged to this day, which certainly makes us unique. Our association also includes more residential and light commercial contractors, the type which is referred to specifically throughout the ERDA program than any of these other organizations, so we are in that sense in a unique position.

Senator MCINTYRE. Could you give me an idea of the problems involved in getting these manuals, which you presented with your testimony, to include solar energy specifications? Also, what are the basic problems in gathering this data and analyzing it before you can put it in black and white?

Mr. MENDITCH. I think that is it, sir. I think that basically in a manual such as this we use a lot of data that comes from experiments, all the way from the National Bureau of Standards, to the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers,

These manuals are put together by a committee, and on that committee are engineers and contractors. The contractors job is to make sure that the manuals do not get too involved or too technical; and the engineer's problem is to keep it from getting too rounded out. And out of that joint effort come these manuals, which are used by almost everyone in the industry. That is what we need in solar energy. We need it so we can get it right down to the grassroots of that small businessman.

Senator MCINTYRE. From your experience in the heating industry, what should the cost of a solar heating system be to be compatible with the cost of existing home heating systems?

Mr. MENDITCH. Enough to where the savings in energy could pay itself out in about-in other words, what they save in energy ought to be paid out in about 4 or 5 years. In other words, you could not sell it to the homeowner, you could not sell it if you could not save the initial cost within 4 or 5 years.

Now, I heard about electric heat before, and heat pumps, for instance. We figure that they will pay themselves out in the difference in cost in about 2 to 3 years over straight electric resistance heating, and that makes heat pumps competitive and marketable. The same way with solar energy. You cannot market it if it is going to take you 20 years to pay it off. You have to be practical about it.

Senator HATHAWAY. And these figures of 4 or 5 years are based on your own practical experience?

Mr. MENDITCH. Yes. In other words, if you save that much in energy over 4 or 5 years, then it would pay you to put it in.

Senator HATHAWAY. I suppose it would pay you to put it in if you knew that you were going to stay there for 10 years?

Mr. MENDITCH. Well, I don't know. The average home, and I have seen figures on this, in this country turns over in about 8 years. So you would not want to get into something that is going to take you 10 years to pay off, if you are going to flip over in 8.

Senator HATHAWAY. Although you could make it more for the house, then.

Senator MCINTYRE. In the course of your comments, you mentioned some shortcomings which I now understand to be cost, storage, and possibly zoning, in order to retrieve the maximum amount of solar energy.

Now, it is my understanding that ERDA has talked about $109 million as a demonstration for the construction of 300 homes. This totals somewhere in the vicinity of $300,000 per home. That is a pretty strong shortcoming. Can you comment on that?

Mr. MENDITCH. Very simply. We may do a project of 100 homes, and on the first house we do on that project, we may get $2,000 for the heating and cooling system, although it might cost us $3,000. The first thing you do has to cost more money to develop it. I think the money is well spent by ERDA, and I think the only way we will get solar energy off the ground is to let us do it. That is the only way we learn. I will guarantee you, though, that the other 99 houses we do have to cost below $2,000 or we are broke.

Senator MCINTYRE. I agree. Well, you are putting me back in perspective. It sounds like a lot of money, and it sounds like an awful lot per unit, but actually, if we are going to do this thing, we have to

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