Senator HATHAWAY. Or even in the application they are in a position to pay more money to the builders and the developers than you are. Mr. PIPER. No. Well, that is true, but the history of this, this industry that we are talking about, which is the construction industry in the United States, is that the small innovator comes up with an idea, develops it to a certain point which is either then merged into a large corporation or becomes a large corporation. Carrier, which is the largest air-conditioning manufacturer in the world now, started exactly that way. It was an idea on how to produce cooling, a perfect example. Senator HATHAWAY. I know you can cite various examples where the small ones have done better than the big ones, but that does not give us necessarily a fair sample of all of the inventions that have ever been made, so it is difficult for us to come to the conclusion that because this and that other person, who was a small businessman, invented, you know, various things or developed certain mechanisms, without knowing the whole picture, we cannot say that that means that the small bussiness ones are the ones to give it to. Mr. PIPER. Let me say Senator HATHAWAY. There are numerous inventions that came out of Westinghouse and General Electric and the other large corporations around the country. Mr. PIPER. I think this is a good area for somebody in this energy business now, and perhaps it would be one that ERDA could tackle under the Solar Demonstration Act, to go into a history of the inventions that have been produced and effective in the construction industry, and make a determination as to what percentage have come from small business and what percentage have come from large business, and what percentage have been natural evolutions versus large research and development programs. Senator HATHAWAY. I think you would probably find that competition, whether it was between larger and small ones, has been what has stimulated the most innovation in the various industries throughout this country, and now you do not have that competition, you do not have the pressure for the R. & D. demonstrations, so you do not have much innovation. Mr. PIPER. That is why I am a small businessman. I love the competition and I love to compete with the big business, and I think most small businessmen do. But they like to compete on a fair basis. You know, they do not like to have big business come in and buy the customer away with the idea that the small business is not going to be able to last beyond a certain time, and then when the small business folds, they go back to their old practices that they originally had. I believe that that is unfair competition. If they will compete with me on a basis of product for product, I love it, and I can change and innovate much faster than the big business can. It takes a committee of 50 engineers a year to do what we do in a month. And the reason is that essentially I make the decision during the month, and make it very rapidly on the basis of the information that I have. If I make a bad decision, I live with it. If the 50 engineers make a bad decision, they get fired. Senator HATHAWAY. The question of the numbers is a very difficult one to answer, because you do not know whether if you reduced that number to 10 engineers you might get a better decision than an individual engineer would make. Undoubtedly, you know, two heads are better than one, but whether three are better than two is the next question. Mr. PIPER. There are great advantages to big research and development programs, and I am the first one that is going to say that. There are also great advantages to small innovators, and I agree with my predecessor who gave testimony here this morning, the Government program, as it is now set up, appears to recognize the first of those two and completely ignore the second. Senator HATHAWAY. That is all. Senator MCINTYRE. Is there any guiding star that tells NSF, HUD who is competent and who is not? Mr. PIPER. I do not think you can tell it any better with a big research organization than with a small one. Senator MCINTYRE. Well, I just am worried about the fact that we want small business in the act, Senator Hathaway, Senator Sparkman and our chairman, Senator Gaylord Nelson, we want small business in the act, and we would like to do something if we can to help it. But the fact remains that how many of these 50, or you said 100,000 didn't you, 100,000 small businesses are ready to go on this solar energy? Mr. PIPER. That was my predecessor. No; I think there are probably in the United States right now, producing equipment and installing systems, there are probably maybe a half a dozen to a dozen small businesses that are really being effective. But we are very fragile, and the Government can very easily put us out of business by one little slip. I know it is not their intention, but I gave testimony this morning as to what happened with the Southern California Gas Co. They took a major prospect away from us, and I am sure that the Government helped them do it. I think they were unknowing in their help. A few of those and we won't even exist anymore. I will be back building apartment buildings. Senator MCINTYRE. I have here a series of letters that surround your activity in the solar energy field, from colleagues in the same business, and from county officials complimenting the housing developments for going to solar. I will include them in the record at this point, without objection. [Testimony resumes at page 115. The exhibits referred to follow:] 7. LETTER DATED MAY 9, 1975, FROM MIKE SCOTT, VICE PRESIDENT, GENERAL AMERICAN HOMES CORP., TO JAMES R. PIPER May 9, 1975 Piper-Hydro 2895 E. La Palma Anaheim, CA 92806 Attn: Mr. Jim Piper Dear Mr. Piper: General American Homes Corp., would like to participate in the Solar Energy Act of 1974 in conjunction with Piper-Hydro. The use of solar energy in conjunction with Piper Hydronic system as we understand it shows great promise for energy conservation. The purpose of our Company, General American Homes Corp., is that we are gearing our entire home toward energy savings in construction time and cost as well as energy savings in maintenance costs. Our unique system of pre-manufactured polyurethane panels combines quality construction with minimum of field time and a maximum of strength and insulation value. Panels are used both for interior or exterior walls along with dual pane windows and sliding glass doors as standard. We have been able, with the use of our factory manufactured panels to provide all of these features and keep well within the range of the average income. As the above points indicate the combination of modular construction such as ours with Piper Hydronic system using solar energy seems to be a most logical way to conserve energy. MS: ds Respectfully yours, Mike Scott General American Homes Corp. 18475 Pacific Street, Fountain Valley, California 92708 (714) 968-4463 8. LETTER DATED MAY 8, 1975, FROM GEORGE ALEXIEVE, INDIAN HILLS DEVELOPMENT CO., INC., TO JAMES R. PIPER In order to recap the activity regarding solar panel installations in the Spokane area I am submitting the following: Projects committed and in process or soon to be built... 1 6000 sq ft home on propane 1 1200 1 50 unit apartment house 4 retrofits (including 1 for a city councilman) 1 swimming pool 4 units for installation by other builders Bid projects under negotiation and good possibilities... 100 panels 2 Air Force barracks 1 14 story high rise (175 units) - 70 panels 1 30 bed clinic at Othello, Washington 3 hospitals for State of Washington Mental Health While I realize that Federal funding in the area of private homes is probably not feasable at this time, I would hope the commercial and government projects under consideration would seem eligible and any progress you might encourage would be extremely beneficial. After completing and metering the first projects, we were so impressed with the Solar Hydronic product and system that we are now serving the Northwest area under our company, namely Solar Hydronics Co., A Division of Indian Hills Development Company. Because of the unusual response of our potential cliental with a minimum of publicity, we are looking forward to a growing business and successful relationship with Piper Hydro. Thank you for your support. Sincerely, George Alexiene George Alexieve GA.b |