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their patrons and all necessary steps will be taken by the restaurants themselves to advise the patron that he is obtaining margarine.

We urge that this committee recommend that Senate bill No. 1744 do pass.

Senator ELLENDER. Senator Wilson, do you have any questions? Senator WILSON. No.

Senator ELLENDER. Mr. Wilson, do you own or operate a restaurant?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. I am in the wholesale business in Raleigh, N. C.-wholesale sandwich business.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, do you use margarine?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No; I do not.

Senator ELLENDER. You do not?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No.

Senator ELLENDER. Why?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Well, for years we have not put butter on our sandwiches, consequently, there is no need for using that. Our sandwiches are served at soda fountains, where they do use butter and no doubt margarine, but many of our restaurants do not.

Senator ELLENDER. Does the imposition of the tax you have designated in your statement have any effect on the fact that you do not use oleomargarine?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, would you prefer using butter to margarine?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Well, some people do.

Senator ELLENDER. I am asking you as a wholesaler.

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Well, we never have used margarine or butter in our wholesale business, but today, with the point value on margarine being two points and the points on butter being 16, you can see what a dickens of a fix we would be in if we did not have margarine today.

Senator ELLENDER. But even considering that, though, you do not use margarine?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No; not in our business.

Senator ELLENDER. What size business have you?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Well, we sell about five to six thousand sandwiches a day.

Senator ELLENDER. And how much butter would that require per day or per week? Can you figure that out?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Well, you know the majority of sandwiches do not have butter, in fact, you can find very little butter or margarine on sandwiches here in Washington. Of course that is true only for the duration.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, were you present when the association of which you are secretary, passed this resolution?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Yes; I was present.

Senator ELLENDER. Was there much discussion about it?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No. There was in the committee meeting before the resolution was passed, but there was not on the floor. Senator AIKEN. The committee had the skids well greased with margarine.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, do you know what prompted such a resolution?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Yes; the high point value on all food that we were having to buy. We were cut in many cases from a hundred percent down to sixteen and two-thirds.

Senator ELLENDER. Was there anything said about the high license tax?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Yes, there was-oh, yes.

Senator ELLENDER. Anything else?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No.

Serator ELLENDER. Did your association ever in the past propose such a resolution as you have presented here?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, would you say that what prompted that resolution was the fact that the point value during the war on margarine was lower than butter, and hence it might be available for use rather than butter?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. That is right.

Senator ELLENDER. Was the nutritional quality of butter as compared with oleomargarine, discussed?

Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. Yes; it was.

Senator ELLENDER. Do you recall what was said about about it? Mr. ROBERT J. WILSON. No; I really do not. Miss McFarland, who is at the head of our educational department, made an investigation, and she found that oleomargarine was all right from a nutritional standpoint.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, I want to repeat a statement I made a while ago, and that is, the position of none of the Senators on the questions included ought to be judged by the questions they ask. What I am trying to do as chairman of this committee is to get both sides and present them to the best of my knowledge and ability. (A discussion was had off the record.)

Senator ELLENDER. After an off-the-record discussion, the committee decided not to sit on Saturday, as was first agreed to, but an adjournment will be had from Friday to Monday, so as to give the witnesses representing the dairy industry, the opportunity of being. heard. We will recess now until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

(And, thereupon, at 12:25 p. m., a recess was had until 10 a. m. June 7, 1944.)

TO REGULATE PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION

OF MARGARINE

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 7, 1944

UNITED STATES SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE,
COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND FORESTRY,

Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 a. m. in the committee room of the Committee on Agriculture and Forestry, 324 Senate Office Building, Senator Allen J. Ellender presiding. There were present before the subcommittee:

Dr. Anton J. Carlson, University of Chicago, Chicago, Ill., president, National Society American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Lewis G. Hines, legislative representative, American Federation of Labor, Washington, D. C.

Donald Montgomery, consumer counsel, Congress of Industrial Organizations, and United Automobile, Aircraft, and Agricultural Implement Workers, (C. I. O.), Washington, D. C.

Howard L. Roach, vice president, American Soybean Association, Plainfield, Iowa.

H. K. Thatcher, executive director, Arkansas Agricultural and Industrial Commission, Little Rock, Ark.

Mrs. Esther M. Coppock, Consumers' Union, Washington, D. C. Mrs. Elizabeth Schorske, League of Women Shoppers, Washington, D. C.

Mrs. Thomasina Walker Johnson, legislative representative of the National Non-Partisan Council on Public Affairs, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Washington, D. C.

Mrs. Eleanor Fowler, secretary-treasurer, Congress of Women, Auxiliary of Congress of Industrial Organizations, Washington, D. C. Mrs. Mary Stuart Chamberlain, consumer interests committee, National Federation of Settlements, Washington, D. C.

Senator ELLENDER. The meeting will be in order. The first witness this morning is Dr. Anton J. Carlson.

Doctor, will you give your name in full for the record, and tell us your present occupation and anything else you desire to put in the record about yourself?

STATEMENT OF ANTON J. CARLSON, M. D., PRESIDENT, NATIONAL SOCIETY AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO, CHICAGO, ILL.

Dr. CARLSON. My name is Anton J. Carlson. I am professor emeritus of the University of Chicago, department of physiology and medicine.

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My present duties will develop, if I may be permitted to state some of my qualifications.

I received my undergraduate training in a college in Illinois. I received my graduate training at Stanford University in California, where I received a Ph. D. in physiology. I was, for a year, research associate, Carnegie Institute of Washington, and for a short time on the faculty of the University of Pennsylvania medical school.

Since 1904 I have been on the faculty of the University of Chicago until my retirment 4 years ago. The greater part of the time there I was in charge of the department of physiology. For the last 10 years I had one of the 10 distinguished research professorships in the University of Chicago.

I am a member of medical and biological research organizations in this country too numerous to relate. They include societies devoted to nutrition and similar fields, as well as a much broader field. I am a member of the American Institute of Nutrition, the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and so forth and so on. In many of these I have held responsible positions.

I am a member of the medical and biological organizations, as a foreign member, in Argentina and in France, in China and in Sweden. I served in the late World War, going in as captain and coming out as lieutenant colonel. This was in World War I. I was in France, and was engaged there in the problem of food, the serving of nutritious food under the Surgeon General.

After the armistice I was drafted by the American Relief Administration under Hoover. I served with headquarters in Paris, serving and feeding or attempting to feed particularly the children in the war devastated areas of Europe including Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, the Baltic provinces, Finland, Austria.

I have been a consultant to the United States Food and Drug Administration for some 30 years and am still a consultant there. I have been a consultant to the Federal Trade Commission in fields where I have been competent to appear in connection with food and drugs.

I have been chairman of two committees of the National Academy of Sciences, advising the Department of Agriculture as to toxic sprays for fruits and vegetables.

I have been chairman of one of the committees of the United States Public Health Service dealing with the same problem.

I am a member of the Public Advisory Committee of the United States Public Health Service.

I have published some 200 research reports in my field. That includes the latest, "What happens to man when he falls without a parachute 5 miles free through the air."

I have published several books. One of those, The Machinery of the Body, of which the armed services recently ordered 15,000 copies for our soldiers in training.

In 1935 I was for some months, on behalf of the Rockefeller Foundation, a lecturer in China.

At the present time I am consultant to the Office of War Information. I am a member of one of the committees of the Office of Scientific Research and Development dealing with the rehabilitation of our wounded soldiers.

This year I am president of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, also for the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine.

Senator AIKEN. Is that an old organization?

Dr. CARLSON. Do you mean the American Association for the Advancement of Science?

Senator AIKEN. Yes.

Dr. CARLSON. It is the oldest and largest organization embracing all the sciences in the United States.

Senator ELLENDER. How long have you been a member of that association, Dr. Carlson?

Dr. CARLSON. Too long to remember, if the Senator please; some 40 years, I think.

Senator AIKEN. That is an organization which has a membership that pays regular dues?

Dr. CARLSON. Yes; 25,000.

Senator. AIKEN. 25,000 members?

Dr. CARLSON. Yes.

Senator AIKEN. And each one pays the same amount of dues each year?

Dr. CARLSON. Yes.

Senator AIKEN. And it is financed wholly from the dues that are paid?

Dr. CARLSON. Yes. That is correct. They have some funds for these special purposes, but the financing of everything otherwise, it is just like the National Academy of Sciences, they have specific funds for specific purposes.

Senator AIKEN. They are contributed by certain persons?

Dr. CARLSON. Yes.

Senator AIKEN. Or groups of persons?

Dr. CARLSON. Yes. But the ordinary running expenses, those are contributed solely by the members.

Now, may I explain to the Senators that what I am going to say on this bill is solely my own, that I am not speaking for any organization whatsoever. I am merely mentioning the responsible public positions I have held.

Senator ELLENDER. You have certainly qualified yourself, Dr. Carlson.

Dr. CARLSON. Yes.

Senator ELLENDER. Have you a written statement?

Dr. CARLSON. I have not, I am sorry to say.

Senator ELLENDER. Will you just proceed in your own way, Dr. Carlson?

Dr. CARLSON. Thank you. May I say that please interrupt me with questions at any point you desire. You will not confuse me.

May I first explain, if the Senators please, that I have studied the pending bill with great care. The chairman of the committee was kind enough to send me a copy of the bill, with a request to appear at the hearing.

I was not consulted at any point in the drafting of this bill. However, I am pleased to say that the statements under "Legislative findings" are substantially factually correct, according to our present

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