Mr. SMITH. Of course, the question I asked was whether Congress has done anything up to the present to provide homes for veterans. thought that it had. Mr. PATMAN. Well, of course, we have passed an act. We started hearings on it December 5, 1945, in this committee. It was delayed, but finally signed by the President on May 22, 1946. But the good provisions of that bill were taken out on the floor of the House. One provision was that it would freeze the prices of existing homes, not at the present value, but at the next sales price, whatever that was. If that had been retained in the bill, we would not have had this inflationary situation in housing. But the greedy people-I do not say they are all greedy, of course, a lot of people were honest in their convictions and just did not believe in it--but the organized greed in the form of lobbyism opposed it and blocked it, and cut that provision out. Mr. SMITH. Do you not think, Mr. Patman, that we can honestly disagree on such matters? Mr. PATMAN. I said that, Dr. Smith. A lot of people have honest convictions. Mr. SMITH. I yield to Mr. Buchanan. Mr. BUCHANAN. I would like to ask Mr. Stern a question. On page 2 of your statement, Mr. Stern, you say, with reference to so-called housing cooperatives, that it costs a veteran some $10,000 for a four- or five-room apartment, to get in. Mr. STERN. Mr. Colloms has the details of that project. Mr. COLLOMS. May I explain that? Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes. Mr. COLLOMS. The project Mr. Stern referred to is one up in Riverdale, N. Y. It is right outside New York City, on the Hudson River. There a project was to be put up-there is another one also in Queens-so-called cooperative housing for veterans under the New York State urban redevelopment law, or under the limited dividend corporation law, which allows cooperatives to go up. There, an investment of about $3,000 to $4,000 per room is required before the veteran can take over the premises. The whole amount is not required at one time, of course. He can make a down payment of about $1,000 to $2,000 per room, and the balance in the form of a mortgage. Mr. BUCHANAN. Then, it does not cost him $10,000 to get in. Mr. COLLOMS. To get in, that is right, before he starts making his payments on maintenance and upkeep, which run about $23 a room, after that. Mr. BUCHANAN. Those are the figures which were in the New York papers, and also issued by the commissioner of housing of New York? What veteran could afford to get into these apartments, if they had to do that? Mr. COLLOMS. I do not know. I know they have not sold any of the apartments. I think something like 105 apartments have been sold out of about 800. That is over a period of 7 months. I think the project is being abandoned. Mr. BUCHANAN. Do you mean to imply before this committee that a development has occurred somewhere in the State of New York where, under the guise of using veterans priorities, they have built a structure Mr. COLLOMS. They have not built it. Mr. BUCHANAN. They have not? Mr. COLLOMS. No; they have not sold enough apartments to get going. They cannot borrow the balance of the money required. I do not think they are going to be able to, because of the exorbitant cost. Mr. BUCHANAN. That is all. Mr. SMITII. I still cannot understand your statement, Mr. Colloms, that it costs a veteran $10,000. Do you mean that it costs him initially $10,000 to get into one of these homes? Mr. COLLOMS. No; that is the over-all cost of the apartment-approximately three or four thousand dollars a room. Mr. BUCHANAN. Then, it is a misnomer to say that it costs him. $10,000 to get in? Mr. COLLOMS. No; it costs him about seven or eight thousand dollars to get in. He must make that down payment. He can borrow it. There is no question about that. If he has credit, and he has a jobwell, you know better than I the credit standing that a man must have in order to borrow $4,000 out of the $7,000 required to get in. Mr. SMITH. Is it your contention, Mr. Colloms, that this is general throughout the country, or are you referring to an isolated instance! Mr. COLLOMS. No; I do not believe I am referring to an isolated instance. I know that in New York City all the cooperatives are running approximately the same way, whether they are for veterans or nonveterans. The veteran is a little better off because he gets the GI loan. The nonveteran cannot get that. Mr. BUCHANAN. These apartments are already fully completely furnished, are they? Mr. COLLOMS. No; they are not furnished at all. They are unfurnished apartments. Mr. SMITH. How much of a loan can a veteran get? Mr. COLLOMS. On these apartments? Mr. SMITH. How much could he get on this projected apartment about which you are talking? Mr. COLLOMS. I think $6,000 is the top loan. Mr. SMITH. But he has to have $7,500? Mr. COLLOMS. That is right. Mr. SMITH. So he is short $1,500? Mr. COLLOMS. That is right. Mr. SMITH. And this is merely something that is in the mind of somebody or some persons, and is not actually under construction or in existence? Mr. COLLOMS. Well, the plans have been filed, the land has been acquired, the loans have been negotiated for with the insurance companies in New York. I think the Manufacturers Trust has said that they will make the loans to veterans who are able to make the payments and who are good credit risks. I think thousands of dollars have been spent on the plans and on the ground plans, and the site planning, which means that it is not merely some ephemeral thing, but it is an actual plan which is ready to go up as soon as they can sell the apartments. Mr. SMITH. Is it possible, Mr. Colloms, that this project is designed for a certain income group of veterans, rather than veterans in general? Mr. COLLOMS. Unquestionably, Dr. Smith. It is designed for the income veteran. Mr. SMITH. Well, what is there wrong about that? You do not think there is anything particularly wrong about that project, do you? Mr. COLLOMS. I do not think there is anything wrong except for one thing. I think the emphasis has been placed on that type of project and not enough upon the types of project which veterans who cannot afford that type of project can get into. Mr. BANTA. Will you yield, Doctor? Mr. SMITH. Yes. Mr. BANTA. Is there anything under the New York State law to prohibit a group of veterans who are in a lower-income bracket and who would find desirable less expensive apartments from forming their cooperative and proceeding to obtain funds, just as this group has? Mr. COLLOMS. There is nothing in the law. There is only one thing, the economics of it happen to prevent it. There is no group of veterans at this time which can put up a project where the acquisition cost of land and construction cost of the apartments, in New York itself, will run less than about $2,800 a room. Mr. SMITH. Why does New York City not do something about it. Mr. COLLOMs. It is. Mr. SMITH. What is it doing? Mr. COLLOMS. New York City is putting up two types of project. They do not have enough money to put up all they need, and that is why we are down here for New York City as well as for the rest of the country. Mr. SMITH. Why do they not have enough money? Mr. COLLOMS. Well, I guess the papers have carried stories about the shortage of funds, to raise which they had to increase the subway fares, and other things; and they do not have enough taxes coming in, I suppose, to build all the housing they need. Mr. SMITH. What is the per capita tax of the people living in the city of New York? Mr. COLLOMS. I do not know, Doctor. Mr. SMITH. What is your State per capita tax? The CHAIRMAN. $25.40. Mr. SMITH. $25.40? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. SMITH. What is your per capita Federal tax? Mr. COLLOMS. I do not even know that figure. The CHAIRMAN. $1,764. Mr. SMITH. Who is more able to do this job of which you speakassuming that it ought to be done the Federal Government or the State government? Mr. COLLOMS. Well, of course, you have got to realize that a good portion of that $1,764 goes into other things, in addition to small expenses-such as defense, and all of the other government expenses, Reconstruction Finance Corporation loans, insuring loans to the builders--but not into putting up public housing, which, I believe, is a function of the Federal Government as much as it is of the State government. The CHAIRMAN. Reconstruction Finance Corporation loans do not cost the taxpayers anything. The RFC shows a substantial profit. Mr. COLLOMS. Well, that is true. But there are plenty of other Federal projects into which the State certainly cannot go, and therefore it does not have the high per capita tax. Mr. SMITH. Have you been before your State legislature for relief? Mr. COLLOMS. Yes, we have. Mr. SMITH. On this project? Mr. COLLOMS. We have. And the Republican assembly and senate there, and the Republican Governor, have not come through with as much aid as we think they should give. We have had substantial loans there, or grants, and bonds sold in aid of housing, but not enough. Mr. SMITH. How did the Democratic administration act politically? Mr. COLLOMS. They appropriated more. Mr. SMITH. And the Progressives, if they get into power, will appropriate still more; is that it? Mr. COLLOMS. We hope so. Mr. SMITH. If the Socialists get into power Mr. COLLOMS. We may then raise the taxes, Dr. Smith, a little bit in order to take care of housing. Mr. SMITH. A little bit? Mr. COLLOMS. Well, we feel that a great deal of the housing which can be proposed is what we call self-sustaining housing-where there is not much required. There was a bill proposed here in 1945 by the New York City Housing Authority. General Butler introduced it at that time. It was called self-sustaining housing. That is where only the credit of the government is pledged and actually no money. Under that form of housing the income groups which cannot go to the veterans' project, which Mr. Stern and I just spoke about, and the people in the lowest income group who require subsidized housingthat dark area where you do not have private building or public building-would be taken care of. We are not proposing, at this time, an amendment to the TaftEllender-Wagner bill for unsubsidized housing. We do not want to clutter up the works. I think it would be a perfectly splendid thing to include such an amendment. I think it should go into a bill of this kind, but at this moment we feel that the thing which should go through is the Taft-Ellender-Wagner bill-the one now before you gentlemen for study. The CHAIRMAN. Possibly we can go along a little faster if Mr. Colloms makes his statement before we proceed with further questioning. Mr. TALLE. May I ask a question of Mr. Stern, Mr. Chairman? Mr. TALLE. On page 3 of your statement, Mr. Stern, you state: At this very time, the British Government, despite severe economic obstacles, has launched a bold and farsighted program to replace crowded urban conditions with planned, integrated, livable communities for its people. If our junior partner can afford this, why can't we? Now, I have in my hand a photostatic copy of an official British document. It carries the seal of Great Britain, and the title is "Capital Investment in 1948," and also the legend "Presented by the Chancelor of the Exchequer to Parliament by command of His MajestyDecember 1947." Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that Appendix "A" of this document be inserted in the record. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, that will be done. (The document above referred to is as follows:) APPENDIX A. BUILDING AND CIVIL ENGINEERING A-1. HOUSING 1. At the end of the war there was practically no new house building, and works of maintenance and repair were rigorously controlled; the only active housing service was the repair of war damage, on which over 200,000 of the total housing labor force of 343,000 were engaged. 2. Over the last 2 years a wide range of housing work has been undertaken in the endeavor to meet urgent housing needs as quickly as possible. The main burden of war-damage repairs has been completed; a program for building 160,000 temporary houses has been undertaken and substantially completed; another 55,000 homes have been produced by conversion and adaptation of existing premises, and a further 126,000 brought back into use by the repair of unoccupied wardamaged dwellings. But special attention has been concentrated on the organization and execution of new house building, which must always be the main source to which the country will look for improved housing conditions. Since the middle of 1945, 149,000 permanent houses have been started and finished. 3. Some 460,000 homes have thus been provided since the end of the war, a substantial contribution toward the 750,000 which were estimated at the end of the war to be required to enable a separate home to be offered to each family who wanted one. 4. There are also at the present time a further 260,000 new permanent houses under construction and a further 90,000 houses in tenders approved but not yet started. Moreover, during these 2 years a substantial part of the building labor and materials has necessarily been expended on the repair of occupied war-damaged houses; it is estimated that if the labor and materials so expended had been available for new construction it would have been possible to build at least 100,000 additional permanent new houses, which would have brought the total number of new houses up to 560,000. In the 2 years after the 1914-18 war the number of new houses recorded as completed was approximatley 5,500. A far greater proportion of the national resources have thus been devoted during the last 2 years to the better housing of the people. 5. The Government has decided that the 260,000 houeses under construction and the 60,000 houses in tenders, approved but not yet started, should be completed as quickly as possible. The amount of softwood timber that can be imported will be the limiting factor in the rate of progress, but for most of the houses already under construction timber is already in the houses or in the country. In order to insure that as many houses as possible are built with the timber available, alternative material has been substituted wherever possible, and the amount of timber has been reduced to 1.6 standards per house (compared with a normal prewar figure of 21⁄2 standards per house). 6. The timber imported in 1948 will govern the number of houses which can be completed in 1949. It is estimated that the amount of timber which can be imported during 1948 will be no more than sufficient for the completion of 140,000 houses. The Government is providing for the number of houses under construction at the end of June 1948 to be 210,000, and approvals of new houses during the remainder of this year and in the first half of 1948 will be granted to secure this result. Preference will be given, so far as local resources will permit, to houses for miners, agricultural workers and certain key workers. 7. Every endeavor will be made to insure that the new houses for the building of which provision is made in the Government's program are adequately manned within the limits of the available supplies of materials and components. For this purpose assistance will be obtained from the fall in the number of workers required for war-damaged and temporary houses. Only experience will show how many workers are needed to sustain the higher rate of finishing new houses that is envisaged. After June 1948 there will, however, be a progressive reduction as the number of new houses under construction falls below 210,000 with a consequent reduction in the number of people employed during the second half of the year. It is estimated that the labor force required for all housing purposes in June 1948 will be approximately 525,000. 8. As to the completion of houses, the position is that 14,000 permanent houses were completed in the month of September and at the end of that month some 100,000 of the houses under construction were already roofed. During 1948 the rate at which houses can be completed should be higher than in 1947, because of |