Mr. BRANNAN. That is correct, in general, sir. Might I just qualify it to say that at no time does the Government have either the title or the possession of the farm. We are simply, through Farmers Home Administration, in the position of a person making a loan, just as a bank would or anybody else would, except that the terms of the loan are much more liberal than anybody else would be allowed to make, and as part of the terms of making the loan some technical assistance as to needed repairs or new construction is included in the over-all plan. But the purchaser carries out the plan, with whatever facilities are available to him in the neighborhood, or does it himself, just as the circumstances warrant.

Mr. RILEY. But you provide the financing, however?

Mr. BRANNAN. We do that, sir.

Mr. RILEY. Based on his making those repairs.

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. RILEY. Your experience, as a result of that, has been very fine, has it not?

Mr. BRANNAN. It has been very fine. Certainly in financial terms, which is not the only factor, by any means. Those loans are in a very safe condition. Most of them are current, and many of them are paid in advance.

Mr. RILEY. Has not this program also tended to improve the productivity of those farms and to increase the usefulness of those citizens to the community?

Mr. BRANNAN. It certainly has. That was demonstrated during the war by the quality of the people who came from those farms for war duty.

Mr. RILEY. Thank you very much.

Mr. MCMILLEN. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McMillen.

Mr. MCMILLEN. Did I understand that you were prepared to furnish data containing a break-down of the assistance in making these farm loans for building these farm homes and improving them in the various States?

Mr. BRANNAN. We are prepared to give you the experience of the Farmers Home Administration. That was what I understood was asked for.

Mr. McMILLEN. The what?

Mr. BRANNAN. The Farmers Home Administration loans-the loan records.

Mr. McMILLEN. That is, as to the past.

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes.

Mr. McMILLEN. Have you gathered data as to the need for future improvements? I would like to have a break-down of what your investigation shows as to the State of Illinois so that I can compare that with what is proposed in the other States of the Union and what will eventually be done.

Can your furnish such data?

Mr. BRANNAN. We can, sir, for groups of States. It is taken from the census records, for the most part. There have been census records in 1940 and then a small survey in 1947.

Mr. MCMILLEN. Will you furnish that for the record?
Mr. BRANNAN. Very well, sir.

Mr. MCMILLEN. There is no provision in the law for the States to make any contribution to this plan?

Mr. BRANNAN. None, sir.

(The information above referred to is as follows:)

TABLE 13.-Estimated ordinary dwelling units in need of major repairs,1 for the United States, by regions, 1947

1 Dwelling units reported as in need of major repairs include those which require major repair or replacement of floors, roof, plaster, walls, foundation, or other major structural components. A repair is major when its neglect seriously impairs the soundness of the structure and creates a hazard to its safety as a place of residence or if the repair has been neglected so long that the structure is already unsound.

2 Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania.

3 Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas.

Delaware, Maryland, District of Columbia, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas. Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, California.

Source: Adapted from Current Population Reports-Housing, Bureau of the Census, Series P-70, No. 1, Oct. 29, 1947.

TABLE 14.-Estimated ordinary dwelling units without running water in dwelling unit, for the United States, by regions, 1947

TABLE 15.-Estimated ordinary dwelling units with private bath and private flush toilet, for the United States, by regions, 1947

TABLE 16.-Estimated ordinary dwelling units without electric lighting, for the United States, by regions, 1947

Mr. MONRONEY. Many States do, by homestead exemptions on any home-whether farm or city home. Is that not right?

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes, sir. But that is common to urban, rural or any other types of homes.

Mr. MONRONEY. Yes.

Mr. McMILLEN. Would the farmer himself make any contribution, say, in the form of labor, during his idle months on the farm, toward the specific proposed improvement on the farm?

Mr. BRANNAN. Certainly it would be to his advantage to do so, and I assume that he would in every case.

Mr. McMILLEN. Is there anything that will require him to do that? Mr. BRANNAN. Nothing other than just plain common sense. He is not going to borrow money to pay for a job to be done when he can do it himself. And I do not think anybody is going to loan him money under those circumstances.

Mr. McMILLEN. Is is your idea that these homes would be made modern as to heat, bathrooms, and other sanitary provisions?

Mr. BRANNAN. That is one of the objectives of a good housing program for rural America.

Mr. McMILLEN. Do you think there would be any temptation on the part of the farmer to get his improvements out of balance? There is no provision here for building shelter for expensive machinery, for crops after they are harvested, or for livestock.

Do you think there might be some danger of finding that farm improved with a house but without the other necessary facilities for successful farming?

Mr. BRANNAN. Well, of course we would attempt to prevent that sort of thing from happening, and, as you are well aware, the tendency of the average American farmer runs just in the opposite direction. He will spend more of his money on improving his equipment, machinery, and buildings than he will on improving his home. That seems to have been a common thing.

Mr. MCMILLEN. But there is no provision for him doing anything else, under this proposed bill, except improving his home on that farm. Mr. BRANNAN. That is right, sir.

Mr. McMILLEN. Do you feel that the individual States should make some contribution to this plan or not? Do you not feel that it would improve the land so that it would make it a base for increased taxes and therefore be a source of revenue to the State, in addition to what it has now, through the various taxing bodies of the State and the other communities?

Mr. BRANNAN. I certainly would want to take the position that if a way could be worked out by which the State could make a contribution proportionate to the benefits directly received by the State from this kind of a program, it should be asked to contribute.

Mr. McMILLEN. I think that would be advisable.

Mr. BRANNAN. Frankly, I do not see quite how it can be done. Another point is that, by farm, the value to the State as a whole is small, I would think.

Mr. MONRONEY. He would make a contribution in income tax if, by better housing, he became a better producer, however, in States which have income taxes.

Mr. BRANNAN. That is right, Mr. Monroney. And by real property tax, if the land is improved in value by having a better home on it.

Mr. McMILLEN. On what proportion of these proposed improvements do you think the owner would be subject to an income tax? According to the Revenue Act, would the people who take advantage of this be subject to any income tax as an average individual over the country?

Mr. BRANNAN. Well, you see, the objective here is to put homes on farms which are capable of sustaining the cost of that home improvement over a period of time. Therefore, the Department of Agriculture's programs, which parallel the housing program, include improvements to the farm which will thereby expand its production capacity, and therefore its basic income, and to that extent will have some relation to income.

Mr. McMILLEN. But, with all of that, there will be very few farmers who take advantage of this law, if this bill becomes law, who would have an income sufficient to pay an income tax; is that not true?

Mr. BRANNAN. I do not know, really, whether it is true or false. But I would say this: That the objective would be to get them into an economic position where they would become full contributors.

Mr. MCMILLEN. But the fundamental basis of this is that the man does not have sufficient income to do this himself, and certainly, under those circumstances, he would not have sufficient income to pay an income tax.

Mr. BRANNAN. Yes. But also, by the same process, or in the same process in which we are encouraging him to improve his house we are also encouraging him to improve his economic base for incomenamely, his farm. Because, as you well understand, a farmer, when he leaves his home, leaves his job, since his home is on his farm, which is not true in the city. In the city a man can live in the same house and change jobs every week. Or he can have the same job and change homes every week. But when you get into the rural communities the house and the farm are so completely integrated, so inseparable, that we have felt that every time you talked about improving the home you had to look and see whether the farm had the income base with which to sustain those improvements and to pay for them, and that is why this whole section is fashioned in such a way as to make all the facilities of the Department available for improving the general farm conditions parallel to the improvements in the farm home.

The second group of loans about which we talk here are loans which parallel exactly the improvements on the farm.

Mr. MCMILLEN. You have data, do you not, as to the size, value, productivity, and so forth, of these farms which are going to benefit under this program, over the entire country?

Mr. BRANNAN. We have general statistics. They have been put into the record before and we can put those tables into the record here again, if you wish, sir. We thought perhaps you did not want to encumber the record again.

Mr. MCMILLEN. And broken down into States, one compared with the other?

Mr. BRANNAN. The information, as we have previously introduced it, has not been broken down as to States. If it can be done, sir, we will certainly do it in that fashion when we introduce it here.

(The information above referred to is as follows :)

TABLE 17.-Number of farms and average acreage and value per farm, by States,

Compiled from United States Census of Agriculture, 1945. Bureau of Agricultural Economics, Statistical and Historical Section.