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theater, there is little evidence that the present movers and shapers of the National Cultural Center have any plans for educational theater. Few of the country's leaders in educational drama and music have been appointed to positions of influence, and few men of wealth have been appointed to the Board of Trustees. We can only hope for the best, but the American Educational Theater Association should certainly call for appointments of leaders from the fields of the educational fine arts to the Advisory Committee on the Arts of the National Cultural Center, and condemn by an outright resolution the present plans for a bridge-and-road complex which the Commission of Fne Arts has found unacceptable.

I would like to say a word about the 45-room hospitality mansion which the American Council on Education, with which the American Educational Theater Association is affiliated, has purchased with Ford Foundation Funds ($500,000). The AETA is a real grassroots group and the Nation's most representative and powerful theater group. Certainly the AETA should have a special position at the new headquarters of the American Council on Education commensurate with its special and deserved position in our country's cultural life. In the past there has been no adequate headquarters for the reception of such special groups as were intent on learning about America firsthand, such as professors, students, correspondents, and others from nations across the face of the earth. Certainly in such an exciting program the American Educational Theater Association must and should have a role equal to that of the recently formed Institute of Contemporary Arts which is local and confined to the District of Columbia in its operations.

In closing, let me say that we must turn the spotlight on the arts by dramatizing across the Nation, through all the various media of communication, the exciting possibilities of our cultural resources. The stage is set for action, the players are on hand-only your direction will assure effective performances. The times in which we live demand that democracy's show must go on.

Mr. THOMPSON. We have as our next witness, Miss Sally Butler, director of legislation, General Federation of Women's Clubs. You are welcome, Miss Butler. Thank you very much for coming. STATEMENT OF MISS SALLY BUTLER, DIRECTOR OF LEGISLATION, GENERAL FEDERATION OF WOMEN'S CLUBS

Miss BUTLER. Thank you, Congressman Thompson. I am glad to come. I am sorry that the president, Mrs. E. Lee Ozbirn, could not come. She wanted very much to. Mrs. Ozbirn is tremendously interested in the subject.

Mr. Chairman and Mr. Martin, for the record, I am Sally Butler, director of legislation for the General Federation of Women's Clubs." In order that the record may show something about the general federation, it was chartered by the Congress in 1901. The purpose was set out in that charter and was defined in part as follows:

*** to bring into communication and to unite women's club and like organizations throughout the world for the purpose of mutual benefit, and for the promotion of their common interest in educational, industrial, philanthropic, literary, artistic, and scientific culture as interpreted and implemented by established policy.

I would like to say here that, as policies, our different States carry out the same program as the general federation, and that in the States they deal with the subjects. For instance, they will have a State art exhibit. We have resolutions on TV and radio and certainly we have one on educational television, which the general federation supports tremendously because we think it is important.

To show that we are interested as a group in the arts also, the women of the general federation raised money and built a building in Interlochen, Mich., where students can go and study during the summer months.

Those are just a few items that I did not put in this report.

The General Federation of Women's Club is set up so that there is a chairman of fine arts in every State and also in most of the nearly 16,000 clubs. The membership is made up of women who are homemakers in every club and totals more than 5 million women who are affiliated with the federation from every State in the Union, including the District of Columbia which, for club purposes, is considered as a State, and as an international organization has approximately 5 million members in 50 other nations.

The federation has supported legislation through the years that has been designed to encourage and develop programs which would stress the value of the cultural aspects of our people. There are awards offered in many States to encourage the young people to study cultural subjects such as music and painting. These programs differ but in some States we have scholarships and hold auditions and people often go to places like the Chicago Musicland when they have that festival annually in Chicago.

The general federation, from the time legislation was proposed to build a national cultural center in our Capital, has worked to help get such legislation enacted into law. Our members who travel abroad and meet with clubwomen in their native lands, know that almost every large capital in the world has a national cultural center of some sort. It may be a national gallery, a symphony hall, or a general cultural center. It is time that the United States of America, as a mature nation, have a real national cultural center in our National Capital. The image of our maturity as a nation will be enhanced when we demonstrate that the cultural aspect of life is as vital as the industrial or professional fields of our national economy. We express this in the general federation over and over again.

Our General Federation is in full accord with Congressmen Frank Thompson, Jr., of New Jersey, and other members of Congress who are promoting the cultural phase of American life, and we do know that there are many bills that are identical and some that differ in minor things. We support Members of Congress wholeheartedly when they introduce legislation which, when passed, will bring into being a Federal Council on the Arts and, of course, it is very necessary to have an Advisory Council on the Arts, composed of truly qualified people.

We are not trying to be too specific, generally, on who is selected but we urge that qualified people be chosen in order that such legislation may really serve the people of our Nation, as intended by bills H.R. 5172 and H.R. 4174. I stress "qualified people" because such appointments, when made, must be made because the persons, and organizations they represent, vitally interested in the arts and in service to our country in an informed, intelligent manner and not because such persons are members of a national committee or because of any personal or superficial reasons.

We think that one of the most vital things that could happen for the success of this bill is to have qualified people, the right people, on the Council.

It was because the president of the General Federation of Women's Clubs, Mrs. E. Lee Özbirn, feels so keenly that the success of any cultural center in our Nation's Capital must represent the best of our

culture that she wrote to Congressman Kearns, of Pennsylvania, urging that Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy, the wife of the President of the United States, be made Chairman of an Advisory Council for the Arts in our Nation's Capital. Mrs. Ozbirn, as does any well informed, intelligent person, knows that Mrs. Kennedy is an expert in the arts. We could go on to say that we feel Mrs. Kennedy should be appointed because of that interest and because of her prestige as the wife of the President. We are conscious that this program was pushed as much under Mr. Eisenhower as it is now. It does not belong to any one party or any one administration and it should not belong to them but, because Mrs. Kennedy is an expert, we think that her appointment would lend much support from people who do not know too much about the program but look to the people that support it. We feel that it would advance the program to do so.

We want to preserve the culture of our historic past as well as to make it possible for the present and future generations to develop the cultural arts in our country.

We believe seriously that it is the culture of any great Nation that lasts and lives. Other phases of physical strength may pass but the artistic and spiritual culture leave a lasting influence on civilization.

While I specifically say here that we urge Congress to take favorable action on these specific bills, our interest is not so much on just which bill is passed so much as that the intent of these two bills gets into language. We think it will be very, very worthy and worthwhile.

Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you very, very much, Miss Butler, and I hope you will thank Mrs. Özbirn for authorizing your appearance. Miss BUTLER. I will because she called me in just before I left and said, "Oh, how I wish I could go."

Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Martin?
Mr. MARTIN. I have no questions.
Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you.
Miss BUTLER. Thank you.

Mr. THOMPSON. Our next witness is Mr. Patrick Hayes, past president of the National Association of Concert Managers and consultant, cultural presentations program, Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, Department of State, who is responsible personally for the fact that Washington does have so much good music and good theater. I think he is more responsible for this than any one else. We could say a lot more about him.

We are delighted to have you, Pat.

STATEMENT OF PATRICK HAYES, PAST PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CONCERT MANAGERS; AND CONSULTANT, CULTURAL PRESENTATIONS PROGRAM, BUREAU OF EDUCATIONAL AND CULTURAL AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF STATE

Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Martin, I do not have a prepared statement. I do have prepared material. I will be brief. For the record, my name is Patrick Hayes, Washington, D.C., and at the end of my testimony I will hand this prepared material to the clerk for the record.

At the outset, I must issue some disclaimers. I will appear as a Washington concert manager and radio commentator on the subject of people and events in the world of music. I will not attempt today to speak for my colleagues throughout the Nation who are concert managers; nor do I have authority to speak for the State Department. I note that that is foreign policy and these bills concern domestic

matters.

Before I come to these paragraphs, may I have the privilege to address a comment to Mr. Martin on two questions.

You asked just specifically what would this Federal Council do? You wanted an example.

What would they talk about at the first meeting? How would they get the show on the road?

Later you asked Dr. Thomas Gorton, dean of fine arts at the University of Kansas, how the whole intent here could become operative in educating our young people more along cultural lines.

In both questions you struck the very thing that is principally on my mind in testifying today. That is that I would recommend that at this first meeting of the Federal Advisory Council that the No. 1 item on the agenda be the use of television, notably educational television in all of the 50 States, bearing maximum usage in mind, programs of the finest quality not only available in the home but directly piped into the schoolrooms and college classrooms with attendance required, and course credits being given for those attending. As an example, the Shakesperian series, the Age of Kings, recently seen only on a few stations on the eastern seaboard, the finest of dramatic productions, which well might be introduced on such an educational network under congressional action.

ANTA, for which the charming Miss Wood appeared, could present the dance in beautiful form, and note too that color television has come into the scene. Such are the programs.

Further than that, I have held the view for a long time that our true centers of culture in the United States are our universities. I know this at first hand. My distinguished father-in-law, Dean Donold Swarthout, whose name you may know, was Dean Gorton's predecessor. I may say that, in his administration at the University of Kansas, the talk about the football teams disappeared when they talked at meetings with the deans.

Quite apart from Hollywood or Broadway, this richness can spring from our college campuses where more and more beautiful facilities are in existence, notably the center at the University of Kansas, which I have had the pleasure of inspecting from top to bottom.

One of the most beautiful theaters in the world is in Lawrence, Kans., and I can see programs not only there but on educational television to go throughout the area. I hope that will be item No. 1 on the agenda when the Council meets.

I heartily endorse both H.R. 4172 and H.R. 4174, Mr. Chairman. I find, in reading them carefully, that they both qualify on a fundamental point in our society, that initiative rests with the individual person or city, county or State. and Federal action comes into play only when the request for advice, guidance, information, or actual money gets to Washington. Anything else would be Federal control, and I would oppose such a proposition.

When people say, as more and more people are saying, that the Government should do something, the tendency is to interpret this expression as meaning that the Government should run the arts in the country. Comparisons are made with France, Great Britain, Canada, and many European and Latin American nations, which do have cultural institutions owned and supported entirely by the state. This is their way of doing it. It works, for them. It would not work here, because the philosophy of the system is not the American philosophy of private initiative.

What should be done in America, and what these two bills would start happening in America, is to provide a system of national encouragement of the arts, through a council or commission in Washington, and to make provision for financial grants upon local request through the State governments with no strings attached and on a basis of matching funds-we build hospitals this way under the Hill-Burton Act. As it happens, now is a sensitive time for consideration of these bills, and there is need for a clear understanding about the proposed relationship of the Government and the arts.

No one disputes that there is need for greater cultural development in the Nation. Presently established organizations need more money, and local resources are reaching the point of no return. The arts cannot stand still, any more than a progressive people or a nation can stand still. If a symphony orchestra is to stay in being, and extend its season by many weeks a year, it needs money to do so. The same applies to opera companies and ballet and dance companies.

The business of the proposed Federal Advisory Council on the Arts would be to research the fundamental questions involved, spot the problems in consultation with people from all parts of the country, and set standards and bases of qualification for grants to be made.

What these bills do and the course they chart will set the tone and indicate the direction of our cultural development for a generation to come. They should err on the side of caution for a long time-and make progress slowly. Fortunately the pace of cultural progress is up to the States and their cities and towns, and a rapid pace is predictable because of the known restlessness at the local level to get more done. This restlessness here in Washington expresses itself in impatience at the delay in getting the National Cultural Center underway; in the need for a longer home season for the National Symphony Orchestra; a longer season for the Washington Opera Society, and for the Washington Ballet; the need or desirability of a conservatory of national prestige such as the Congress authorized in 1891-which is still a part of the basic law of the land-being located here. Other cities have similar or identical needs, and are restless to get going.

There is no one distressed area in the field of the arts. The problem is entirely national and widespread. The only variables are those of degree-New York City, giant that it is, has its problems-it almost lost Carnegie Hall; it may lose the Metropolitan Opera House; Lincoln Center is still a long distance from its total financial goal.

Cheyenne, Wyo., has no opera house or opera company, and in Kansas City the beautiful Music Hall in the municipal center is vacant more nights than it is occupied by performancs of music, dance, and drama. There is need of places to play, and a critical need of more organized companies to perform.

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