be in bulk in order to get the use of planes that are devoted only to that business and which, therefore, go straight through? Senator LODGE. Yes. Senator AUSTIN. Which go straight through from point to point, thus expediting the transmission, and that is one reason for adhering to the bulk transmission theory, is it not? Senator LODGE. I think that is correct, absolutely. Senator REVERCOMB. May I ask this question on that point, Senator? Senator LODGE. Yes. Senator REVERCOMB. How long do you consider will be consumed each time in transmitting the bulk of the votes to the soldiers at the front? What are the different periods of time? I believe that has been testified to heretofore. Senator LODGE. Of course, I cannot testify to that as an expert. As I understand it, southeast China is at the end of the longest line of communication that we have. Senator REVERCOMB. And is not the time that was fixed for that 46 days? Senator LODGE. I think so. Senator REVERCOMB. To get a receipt back? Senator LODGE. I am not versed in those things, Senator. Senator AUSTIN. I can answer those questions, not with personal knowledge, but with expert evidence which I have before me now, and I will read it to you if you do not mind. Senator REVERCOMB. I will be very glad to hear it. Senator AUSTIN. I am reading from a statement by Col. Robert Cutler. Senator LUCAS. May I inquire, Senator, if you are talking about the uniform Federal ballot that will be sent out by the Commission or Secretaries of War and Navy? Senator AUSTIN. Yes; and there are postal cards as well as the ballots. There are three items to be transmitted. Senator LUCAS. And that is the basis of your explanation? Senator AUSTIN. That is what I am talking about. This was a statement made before a meeting of the House Committee on Elections of President, Vice President, Senator and Representative on November 16, 1943, and I come right down to that bulk-carriage point: What makes the procedure proposed under title I of the Green-Lucas bill a reasonable possibility is that it involved one bulk carriage overseas at a time selected at the services' convenience and one bulk carriage back to America. Any procedure more onerous that this would, for overseas carriage if it involved any considerable volume, raise the greatest difficulties for the service and interfere with their primary duties. There is another difficulty with the State absentee balloting procedure under State laws now in effect (the figures which I am using are, I believe, reliable but, owing to the great diversity of State laws, should be checked up to date). Seven States, apparently, do not permit absentee voting for Federal candidates in primaries. Three other States apparently permit absentee voting only if the absentee is within the United States (as to two of these States only if the absentee is physically within the State itself). Eleven States apparently allow only 20 days or less between the date when an absentee voter's application may be formally received by the State officials and the date on which his executed ballot must be received back by the State officials. Thirty-three States apparently allow an interval of only 30 days or less. Some 14 of these States appear to require that a particular form of application for absentee ballot furnished by the State be used by the absentee voter and do not recognize, as an adequate application, the postal card form of application provided by the Ramsey Act.. Such States, on receiving such a post card, would send to the absentee not the desired ballot, but merely a form of application to be made out and sent back by the absentee before the absentee ballot will be sent and, in addition, many States which will formally receive the absentee's application an adequate number of days before the election, will not dispatch the ballot itself to the absentee because the candidate will not be known and the ballot accordingly will not be printed until a more limited number of days, in some instances 15 or less, before this election. All of these restrictions tend effectively to negative the possibility of servicemen outside of the United States voting in State primaries and elections by use of the existing State absentee vote procedure. I have obtained information from the proper Army authorities as to the time of air mail carriage from various points overseas where considerable bodies of our troops are now located to a central point in the United States, Springfield, Ill. For obvious reasons, I cannot here state where these overseas points are, but I can give instances of the respective times of carriage to illustrate the difficult problem involved. In stating these times of carriage, I am giving the average time of carriage based on a long period of experience. Obviously, for one particular emergency carriage, weather and military conditions permitting, the time of carriage could very materially be shortened. I emphasize the words "one particular emergency carriage." Such a special short-time carriage could not be practicably repeated at frequent intervals. Now, we come to this table: From an overseas point in North American area to Springfield, Ill.-6 days. From an overseas point in the European theater to Springfield, Ill.--11 days. Senator LUCAS. May I interject there, Senator Austin? That 6 and 11 days means, under your theory on the uniform Federal ballot with respect to the bulk carriage, one trip? Senator AUSTIN. That is right. Senator LUCAS. When we get into the different State requirements with respect to the various steps they must take, that would be multiplied by the respective steps they would have to go through in those States before they would get a ballot, assuming they had plane priority? Senator AUSTIN. I have not finished this answer yet. Senator LUCAS. I am sorry that I interrupted but I did not want to overlook that point. Senator REVERCOMB. In view of the statement made by the Senator from Vermont, may I ask if the 6 days from some point in the North American continent means a carriage two ways or one way? Senator AUSTIN. One trip. Senator REVERCOMB. That would mean 12 days in taking it over and back? Senator AUSTIN. That is right. Senator REVERCOMB. Of course, you say that applies to bulk carriage. It would not take longer to carry one individual piece that it would the bulk? Senator AUSTIN. If your elections are going to be conducted by having only one ballot, of course you would get that one ballot over in the same time that you would get over the total number. The balance of the answer is this and I am continuing to read: From an overseas point in the Pacific theater to Springfield, Ill.-13 days. From an overseas point in the Far East area, the longest carriage, to Springfield, Ill-16 days. I wish to repeat that the foregoing are average times of air-mail carriage based on actual experience over a long period of time and are the carriage time which are properly applicable in considering the individual carriage by air mail of State absentee ballot applications and ballots over a period of 6 to 7 months. These are not the carriage times to be considered in relation to one particular emergency carriage of ballots in bulk where the carriage time could reasonably be halved under favorable conditions, be made even more short. It is to be remembered, however, that the State absentee balloting procedure involves at least 3 carriages for each serviceman and in 14 States, apparently 5 carriages. The minimum carriages involved are The post card application for the serviceman to the State. The blank ballot from the State to the serviceman. The executed ballot from the serviceman to the State. Relating this triple carriage to the times of carriage, I have stated above, in regard to four points overseas and allowing 4 additional days' action by the serviceman and the State officials, which is certainly an irreducible minimum, the following carriage times plus 4 days added would be involved through use of the existing State absentee balloting procedure: Overseas point in North American area--22 days. Overseas point in European theater-37 days. Overseas point in Far East area-52 days. In such States as require the use of a particular State application form and bence five carriages, the time stated would be increased by 40 percent at least. Senator REVERCOMB. May I inquire at that point if the latter figures given by you are for carriages both ways? Senator AUSTIN. Yes; that is the total. That is with an added 4 days, the total carriage with an added 4 days for facility in voting. I am not reading continuously here although I think it is relevant, but I am skipping down to this: The Army alone is now carrying by air some 700,000 pieces of mail a day in addition to some 620,000 V-mail letters a day. These are average figures based on a recent month. I think that answers Senator Revercomb's question. The CHAIRMAN. Was that a question to the witness? Senator AUSTIN. No, indeed; that is an answer as a witness to Senator Revercomb's question. Senator CONNALLY. Senator Austin, let me ask a question, for you are much more familiar with this thing than I am. How many of the States may, if they desire, repeal by legislation any provisions for absentee voting in the case of soldiers? Are there any constitutional requirements in the State constitutions about absentee balloting or could the legislatures abolish it? Senator AUSTIN. I could not answer that. I have an idea there are some States that are bound by their constitutions relating to this matter, but that is a small number. Senator CONNALLY. I wonder if it could not be corrected by legislation and a liberal method used in the case of soldiers. In my State, for instance, we do not have an absentee ballot, but my suggestion to my people would be to repeal any of the provisions in the case of soldiers, so they could vote maybe 2 or 3 months in advance, if necessary, or just as soon as the ticket is made up. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Connally, in Texas, is there not a provision in the constitution that does not permit the soldiers, in certain exceptions, to vote at all? Senator CONNALLY. There is some doubt as to how wide that scope is. I think that could be construed as only applying to the standing Army, the Regular Army. It would not cover Reserves. It specifically exempts Reserves. The only question is that these boys are drafted and I think the general conception is that they are Reservists. The CHAIRMAN. It would exclude the Regulars, then? Senator CONNALLY. In time of peace, it certainly would exclude the Regular Army. Off the record. (Discussion was held outside the record.), Senator REVERCOMB. I desire to state that the State of West Virginia, in a session of the legislature convened on January 3, has passed a liberalized voting bill for the soldiers, sailors, and marines that vote in that State. Senator CONNALLY. In other words, under the law of West Virginia now, they could vote without any Federal law? Senator REVERCOMB. Yes; and they required the candidates to file at an early date so that these ballots would be in the hands of soldiers in any part of the world, both in the primary election and in the general election. The CHAIRMAN. Supplementing Senator Austin's statement, although he referred to it, I would like to emphasize the fact that in some of the States there are not only three different carriages that are necessary but five, because the States require the application for a ballot on a special form so that the man overseas has to write in to the secretary of state for that form, which is an application for a ballot, and then the application form has to be sent to him. Then he has to send that application form duly made out to the secretary of state. The secretary of state then has to send him the ballot and then the ballot has to be returned to the secretary of state in time to be counted, so that there are five different carriages. Of course, there must be intervals between the two so that the schedule of time which Senator Austin presented is applicable, as I understand it, only to those States that require three carriages. But there it requires five carriages, the time is very much longer, perhaps twice as long, and that ought to be taken into consideration, also. I do not know that any of the States, under their present laws, allow sufficient time for that procedure to be carried out fully. Senator LODGE. Mr. Chairman, for the benefit of Senators who have come in since I spoke, let me say that, of course, this bill that the Senator from Vermont and I have introduced supports completely the thesis of Federal voting and the thesis of bulk carriage and all the rest of it and there is absolutely no difference between the two bills on that point. In connection with what Senator Connally said a moment ago, I would like to point out to those that came in late that on page 2, lines 22, 23, and 24 of this bill contain, I think, one of the principal points of difference between this bill that I am speaking of and the other bill. The language there says: In time of war, every individual specified in subsection (c)— And that means the armed forces and the merchant marinequalified to vote by absentee voting ballot under the laws of the State of his voting residence. There is the thesis that it is the prerogative of the State to decide whether a man should vote or not, and what this bill does, I would like to say particularly to the Senators who came in late, is that it guarantees voting for President, Vice President, Senator, and Congress man for the men in the armed services and the merchant marine who are overseas, and it preserves all of the rights of the States insofar as registration, qualification of voting, counting of the ballots, and so forth are concerned. Senator STEWART. Why do you make a distinction between those who serve in this country and those who are serving outside? Senator LODGE. Because these in this country can vote by regular methods and those overseas cannot. Senator STEWART. Would it meet with the same objection that the other bill did? You were, of course, present when it was debated on the floor. They had different laws in various States, some of which did not give ample time for absentee balloting. Senator LODGE. Very few, I think. Senator STEWART. In Tennessee, I think we have, under our State laws if I recollect correctly, a provision that local election commissioners make up the ballot 10 days before the election. It is either 10 or 15 days. Of course, the ballot obviously cannot be made up or mailed to a soldier until it is made up and therefore, it looks to me as though there might be some difficulty with the soldiers being moved from camp to camp, being transferred in this country from coast to coast, which might meet with some of the same objections on the part of soldiers in this country that were offered when the bill was debated on the Senate floor. Senator LODGE. I believe that, broadly speaking, the overwhelming majority of soldiers in this country can vote under the existing State procedures. There are two States, I think, of which the citizens could not vote unless the State laws are changed. Senator STEWART. I think the debate showed four. As a matter of fact, there would probably be a greater percentage of voting among the soldiers in this country than there would be overseas; would there not! Senator LODGE. I should think probably; yes. Senator CONNALLY. Senator Lodge, you used the term "Federal votI think that is an unfortunate term. ing." Senator LODGE. Federal ballot, I meant. Senator CONNALLY. Well, Federal ballot. I do not subscribe to the doctrine that there is any Federal voting. Until we passed this act 2 years ago, we have lived 150 years under the Constitution and I challenge anybody to find anything in any act that says anything about Federal voting. Senator LODGE. I think that is correct and I may say to Senator Connally that this bill is drafted in order to meet that very view of yours. Senator CONNALLY. I would not mind it if they wanted to have Federal voting if I could have a part in formulating what it is but there is just no such animal. The CHAIRMAN. My comment on the length of time it might take for these five carriages, I think, was misunderstood by you. You said that the criticism, if you called it such, applied to both bills. The criticism, if you call it such, is directed to the difference between the bills because, as I understand it, your bill recognizes entirely the 94453-44- -3 |