It eliminates the Federal Ballot Commission. It in no way touches the prerogatives of the States insofar as registration requirements or voting requirements of any kind are concerned. It puts the Federal Government in the role of a conduit or a mere messenger. It is just as if, in Massachusetts, for example, or in any State where you have an absentee-voting law, you have a man who is sick in a hospital; you take him his ballot and have him mark it and then you take it to the town clerk. You have no possible influence over that ballot. That is the position of the Federal Government insofar as my bill is concerned. To recapitulate, it eliminates the Federal Ballot Commission; it leaves the voting requirements of the States in control and it confines voting to members of the armed forces and the merchant marine who

are overseas.

I think that is a brief summary of the essence of my bill. If there are any questions, I will be delighted to try to answer them.

The CHAIRMAN. Do any members of the committee have any questions to ask?

Senator TUNNELL. You eliminate the idea of the Commission entirely?

Senator LODGE. Entirely, yes; and the ballots will be printed by the Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy.

Senator TUNNELI. And the ballot is in the same form?

Senator LODGE. I have exactly the same ballot as that described in the Green-Lucas bill, only it will be printed by the Secretary of War and Secretary of the Navy instead of by the Federal Ballot Com

mission.

Senator BRIDGES. Senator Lodge, have you read the newly introduced Green-Lucas bill?

Senator LODGE. I have scanned it.

Senator BRIDGES. I wondered how you feel about their newly introduced bill and if your bill differs from theirs, and if there are advantages in the bill introduced by yourself and Senator Austin.

Senator LODGE. My bill, on page 2, line 22, is to be compared with the Green-Lucas bill on page 4, line 13. My bill, on line 22, page 2,

says:

In time of war, every individual specified in subsection (c)—

that is, members of the armed forces and members of the merchant marine

qualified to vote by absentee voting ballot under the laws of the State of his voting residence,

The Green-Lucas bill, on page 4, line 13, says:

In time of war, nothwithstanding any provision of State law relating to the registration of qualified voters.

In other words, this bill that the Senator from Vermont and I have introduced leaves the States in control of registration requirements and the question of counting the ballots. On the question of the poll tax and all other matters relating to the privileges and prerogatives of the States are left untouched in my bill.

Senator BRIDGES. Your bill is essentially a States' rights bill?

Senator LODGE. It is a States' rights bill. The man overseas can vote for President, Vice President, Senator, and Congressman on the Federal ballot and, to my mind, that is the heart of the question and

my bill preserves that and, at the same time, seeks to preserve the rights of the States.

Senator BRIDGES. And you think the Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy, or the War and Navy Departments, perhaps I should say, can, under the provisions of your bill, carry this out without complicating their functioning in the conduct of the war?

Senator LODGE. I believe that the Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy can carry this out. I say this not as the result of any consultations with them in respect to this bill. Of course, I have discussed the broad proposition with Army officers who have been before the Military Affairs Committee on and off for 3 or 4 months and my general discussions, together with my own personal knowledge of the organization of the Army, leads me to believe this is a bill they could readily administer and carry into effect, but I would welcome an expression from the Army on that point. That is just my judgment.

Senator BRIDGES. In what respect, in connection with War Ballot Commission which was provided in the Green-Lucas bill and about which there was considerable controversy on the floor of the Senate, do you feel that the provisions of your bill can be better handled by the War and Navy Departments.

Senator LODGE. I do not think the elimination of the War Ballot Commission simplifies anything for the Army and Navy. I think the job is just about as complex one way as the other but I could not honestly say that the elimination of the War Ballot Commission simplified the task for the Army and Navy. No; I could not say that. Senator BRIDGES. Does your bill differ in any respect fundamentally from the Green-Lucas bill?

Senator LODGE. This bill that I have introduced does omit some of the civilian categories in overseas voting. The only persons, not members of the armed forces, who are privileged to vote under this bill are the merchant marine. As I understand it, the new draft by Senator Green and Senator Lucas includes the American Red Cross, the Society of Friends, and those different categories. The reason I have left them out is because of my belief that every time we set up a new category, even though for a small number of people, that it is a bother to the Army and Navy.

Senator BRIDGES. Do you think the Army and Navy are going to carry out the supervision of the voting of the merchant marine?

Senator LODGE. That will be done under the supervision of the War Shipping Administrator. That is covered on page 11 of my bill, and I may say the identical language is in Senator Green's bill, too. That is the same language in Senator Green's bill on a different page.

I may say that this bill that the Senator from Vermont and I have introduced is a modification of the Green-Lucas bill. When I heard that this bill was in preparation, I got the committee print and used that as a basis so all of the language that is not in controversy here is exactly the same.

The CHAIRMAN. Do any other members of the committee have any questions?

Senator MURDOCK. I would like to ask a question or two, Senator Lodge: What does your bill do with Public Law No. 712, which is now on the statute books with reference to the poll-tax qualification or disqualification?

Senator LODGE. This bill leaves out the poll-tax qualification.

Senator MURDOCK. Would it have the effect of amending the present law which was passed 2 years ago?

Senator LODGE. It does not affect it one way or the other, so far as that is concerned.

Senator MURDOCK. It leaves it just as it is?

Senator LODGE. Yes.

Senator AUSTIN. Just a minute. Let me call Senator Lodge's attention to this language on the first page of your proposal:

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That Public Law Numbered 712, Seventyseventh Congress, be amended to read as follows:

Senator MURDOCK. So it has the effect, has it not, Senator Austin, of repealing Public Law 712?

Senator AUSTIN. It repeals it in respect of that point.

Senator MURDOCK. Wherever it does not conform to the proposed bill?

Senator AUSTIN. That is my interpretation of it, that it repeals everything that is inconsistent with this bill.

Senator MURDOCK. Senator Lodge, do you take the position that the Congress of the United States has not the power in Federal elections-that is, in elections of Federal officials-to do away with the requirement of the payment of the poll tax?

Senator LODGE. No. I am very much opposed to the poll tax. I voted for cloture. There is nobody in the Senate who is more strongly against the poll tax than I am, and I do not believe there is anybody in the Senate who thinks that the right of the Federal Government to legislate on elections of Senators and Representatives is more clear than I do.

Senator MURDOCK. That is why I am asking these questions, knowing your feeling on the poll-tax bill, that you would join in the authorship of this bill which is the exercise by the Federal Government of whatever power it has over Federal elections and leave out the repeal of the poll-tax bill.

Senator LODGE. I left out the antilynching bill, too. I left out a whole lot of other things.

Senator MURDOCK. But the antilynching bill

Senator LODGE. My dear Senator, if you want to put it in, I would certainly be delighted.

Senator MURDOCK. It is not a question of what I'want. I am trying to ascertain what your attitude is.

Senator LODGE. I am trying to get the votes in the Senate of the Senators who voted against soldiers voting. That is what I am trying to do, and I am trying to submit a compromise that will get their support.

Senator MURDOCK. Then you are willing, I take it, in order to effect a compromise to repeal the United States law now in effect which precludes the imposition of the payment of a poll tax as a qualification to vote?

Senator LODGE. No: I do not think this does that.

Senator MURDOCK. The coauthor of the bill, whom I consider one of the outstanding lawyers of the Senate, says that it does. Senator LODGE. It amends Public Law 712.

Senator MURDOCK. Yes; and it amends it to the point and to the degree of completely repealing the present provision with reference to the elimination of the payment of a poll tax as a qualification to vote in a Federal election.

Senator LODGE. No; I do not understand that this repeals any polltax provision of the present law. I do not understand that.

Senator MURDOCK. What does this language on page 1 of the bill mean?

That Public Law Numbered 712, Seventy-seventh Congress, be amended to read as follows.

When this is enacted, Public Law No. 712, as it now exists, passes out of existence and this becomes the law of the land.

Senator LODGE. The law is amended. It is not repealed.

Senator MURDOCK. You are amending it now. The only thing we have left in Public Law 712, if your proposed bill is adopted, are the provisions in your bill. What you are doing, as I understand it, and as a former, I think, very effective exponent of anti-poll-tax legislation, is putting yourself in the position of proposing the repeal of that provision of Public Law No. 712 which outlaws the requirement of payment of a poll tax as a prerequisite to voting for Federal officials. Senator LODGE. No; that is wrong, Senator. No; that is wrong.

Senator MURDOCK. I think that we had better have the authors of this bill get together and tell us what it does. There seems to be emphatic disagreement between the two distinguished coauthors of the bill.

Senator LODGE. There is no difference of opinion by the authors of .the bill.

Senator MURDOCK. If this is not a complete repeal of Public Law 712 as it is today then I do not understand the language of your bill. Senator LODGE. It is an amendment; not a repeal.

Senator MURDOCK. An amendment that wipes out the provisions of Public 712 as they exist today and especially the anti-poll-tax pro

vision.

Senator LODGE. I do not think that is true and that is not intended, so let us not have any misunderstanding about that.

Senator MURDOCK. I think it is high time that the two authors of this bill got in complete accord as to its effect so we can intelligently act. I say this with all due deference and respect to both Senators Austin and Lodge, because I have a genuine respect and admiration for both.

Senator LODGE. I think that is true. As far as the authors of this bill are concerned, I think neither of the authors is in any way opposed to the poll-tax legislation. I am not a lawyer, I may say, and if through some legalistic misunderstanding the poll-tax question is not taken care of, then I would like to have Senate counsel take care of it. Senator MURDOCK. I would like to make this observation, Mr. Chairman, that whenever the Federal Government steps into the election picture and provides for the voting of the soldiers of the United States, it is my hope that we will not condone provisions of law in the several poll-tax States which preclude the soldiers out on the fighting fronts from voting simply because they have not paid that poll tax, and I am absolutely opposed to any bill that does. To tell one soldier out on the fighting front that he cannot vote because he has not paid a

poll tax and to tell the man at the side of him that he can, I am opposed to that. I do not believe the Federal Government wants to condone that kind of a system and put its stamp of approval on it.

Senator LODGE. Of course, I subscribe to that. I think it is utterly outrageous to take a man and put him in the service and then make him pay a poll tax to vote for Federal officials and it is not the intent of the authors of this bill to repeal any provision of existing law which enables the citizen not to pay a poll tax.

The CHAIRMAN. If the committee concludes that is the result of the language used, do you object to its being changed?

Senator LODGE. No; of course not. Let's not make an issue of that because there is not any, because you and I agree.

Senator MURDOCK. I have to make an issue if you are sponsoring this legislation.

Senator LODGE. We will clear it up. We are not in disagreement. Senator MURDOCK. I thought all along you and I were in full agreement on this poll-tax question and, to speak frankly, I was rather shocked when I found you were coauthor of this bill.

Senator LODGE. You do not need to be shocked about that. I also want to give the soldiers a chance to vote and I know from what has happened in the Senate, we are not going to do it unless we meet some of the views of some of the Senators who are concerned with the impact of this on States' rights. This section gives the right for the soldiers to vote overseas and preserves States' rights.

Senator AUSTIN. Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Austin.

Senator AUSTIN. I want to ask a question. What I want to inquire about, for the purpose of bringing it out in the record, is the matter of transmission-transmission of information, transmission of postal cards, transmission of ballots, and all that sort of thing. Is it not the theory of these proposals-I think they agree in this regard, and I want to know whether you understand it the same way I do-is it not the theory of this legislation that transmission in bulk is the only feasible way of getting this material to the various theaters of operations and back to the ballot box in time, that is, in the time that is allowed between the nomination and election of officials?

Senator LODGE. That is my understanding.

Senator AUSTIN. Yes. That is, if we undertook to break down the transmission-in-bulk idea and make it possible under the law for individual pieces of mail containing any of these things to go into the regular mail, we would practically break down the operation of the law, would we not?

Senator LODGE. I think we would, because of the necessity of getting these pieces of paper back at a certain time.

I saw an article in the paper today saying that if you could send Christmas presents to the soldiers which were bulky, why could you not let each man send in his own State ballot? I think the answer to that is that if there were not a time certain on which the ballots had to be in the United States, that would be possible, but you have to get them back at a certain time, and I think that is the essential point.

Senator AUSTIN. It is also essential, is it not, on account of the vast amount of mail glutting our planes, but it is also necessary to